Eating disorders encouraged?!?

Weighing athletes can actually be a good thing.

One girl on our team had an eating disorder and by weighing her -- and every other female -- we were able to work on increasing her weight.

If she went too low, we wouldn't let her run a workout, or two or three.

We weighed everyone, in private, so she wouldn't feel singled out. We told them all it was to monitor hydration, but they probably figured it out pretty quickly.

patti wrote:

.. I went to the doc's for a referral for hurt heel and they wanted to weigh me. I said "No" And they said "alright then." However, I do not know what they wrote on my chart. LOL! But I didn't get weighed.

Hiya Patti. What we would normally write in the chart was "declines weight", then we'd shrug and move on. Unless we're talking about stomach bypass surgery, the number is mainly important if we are prescribing drugs which are dosed based on weight, or we're just trying to have 3 vital signs measured for billing or record purposes (a surprising number of forms we are asked to fill out require blood pressure, height and weight).

Good point Van -- except Patti was not America's next great hope. She was the American Record Holder at the marathon for a number of years, which makes her the full meal deal. And whatever her relationship to food used to be, I can attest that she currently makes one helluva batch of cookies.

This is actually a good thread, although the notion that a 110 pound human (of either gender) can run any reasonable number of miles a week on 1200 calories a day is patently absurd. That calorie level is about what prisoners in work camps are given when the goal is to work them to death within about 3 months. For a 60-70 mile a week runner, someone out there must have the calculator, but 3500 + a day seems right.

Another way to consider it: 25 miles of running (for any body habitus at any pace) is worth about one day's worth of calories -- for a male runner over 150 lbs this will be 2000-2500 calories or so, which is what such a male needs for basic non-excercising health. So a runner doing 75 miles a week needs to eat the equivalent of three extra days worth of food.

I wonder if anyone in coaching circles tries any of the following:

1. Weigh runners weekly, but do not let them (or teammates) see the result, just record it so the coach can know if someone suddenly drops too much, and so that over a couple of seasons one can eventually see what at what weight a runner ran best. Give the runner the 4-year log when he/she graduates.

2. Rather than log all they eat, require they eat a certain number of things every day, such as two pieces of fruit, two servings of vegetables, one good protein source. Let the runner eat anything else they want and not record it. But I find (as a middle-aged slowpoke marathoner) that if I do this, then eat whatever I feel like on top of it, I seem to gravitate to a better diet (eat the fruits first, then dessert and junk food later if you feel the need).

BTW, never never turn down crab cakes at Legal Seafoods in Boston. Diet and calories be damned.

I have witnessed the long and short term effects of eating disorders in two women close to me. Some of the stories in this thread about the actions of college coaches are sad and frightening.

A few people have mentioned the long term effects of eating disorders, but I think some reinforcement would be good. Many people struggle for years to overcome eating disorders. Athletes need to realize that many can't just stop being anorexic when they stop competitive running. You may feel that you can handle and stop whenever you want, but if you are wrong, things may go downhill for a very long time. You may end up with cardiovascular disorders, reproductive difficulties, chronic orthopedic issues, depression, chronic anxiety, or more serious neural disorders. While the mortality rate for ED's is not exactly at the level of pancreatic cancer, living with major depression or an anxiety disorder for the rest of your life is not fun. You may go into recovery for a while, and then something stressful happens, and the ED comes back like it was never gone. As a bonus, it is likely that you will pass on your eating disordern to any future children.

I was a bit worried to see the excitement over the Racing Weight book. Runners are at risk for developing ED's, and I personally don't feel that the book will benefit enough runners to offset the potential risk to runners that are developing ED's. If your best weight is the one where you have the best workouts and races, and stay healthy, it doesn't seem to be a useful variable to focus on. No one should have to worry about how that type of book will affect some runners; it would be nice if running wasn't associated with eating disorders, but it is a problem.

While this thread is somewhat sad, it's always a positive to see this type of discussion. I'd like to encourage anyone who has experience with an ED to not be afraid to talk about it with other people. It's hard to fix a problem no one talks about. I've been wanting to talk to college athletes about my experience dealing with someone who developed anorexia in college, but I just never make it a priority. Shame on me.

Very good thread, ideed. I had intentionally changed my regular poster name, in order to not be identified. I will reveal some facts that are pertinent to this topic, but, hopefully, my identity will remain a secret. Those of you, who will recognize me, please remain silent. No one will benefit from it...

I was a D1 -international student and former pro runner, who had struggled with food issues and weight for many years - almost all throughout my running career. I have to add- I am a male, which is even more embarassing for me. It started when I switched from my former main sport, where I was kinda chubby, compared to my teammates (if you can call 5'something 120something lbs male chubby). I got into running to lose some weight and to show my father - former elite athlete that I can achieve somthing. All wrong reasons, but I knew from the beginning that I found my sport. I was instantly good at it and lost weight quickly. I was good until my sophmore year in HS, then problems started. I weighed 107lbs, as a male over 5'6" at 17yo. It was terrible, I couldn't break 4:15 for 1500, while I was running almost 15s faster just few months ago. I wanted to be lighter, skinnier.... a complete idiot. My parents suspected I had anorexia, but I denied it. The low weight was subscribed to my running. I was lucky enough to realize that this won't work. In a sense - running saved me. I did everything to get a scholarship in the US and get out of my country. I gained 15 lbs, ran terribly for a year and then it got better by my senior year. I lost some weight again and the obsession started again. I was careful not to become emaciated too much, but was always howering around 110-114 lbs. I did eat so that I got fuel, but I had excluded all sweets, had not eaten single french frie for 12 years, no pizza, no red meat... You get the picture. I was anal about eating exactly at the time to feel perfectly fine for workouts, even more for races. You would say that's normal for D1 runner and later pro runner, but it wasn't. It was terrible, I had no life and everything evolved around what type, amount and consistency of food I ate and when I had to run. There was no respite, even after huge breakthrough races and big PRs. I was commented on my perfect leaness and discipline and that encouraged me even more to continue. My girlfriend, and later to be wife - god bless her - also an elite runner, was the complete opposite (talk about paradox). She would eat anything, huge amounts, lot's of junk food and ran terrific times, the worst she ate. She had perfect metabolism, BF % as a male runners, no problem with periods - perfect genes. She would make fun of my anal behaviour concerning nutrition, but when she saw I ate and am not wasting away, she gave me break. But in my later twenties, all cought up with me, and I became a virtual cripple, unable to run one more step. Everything piled up and I didn't run for more than a year a single step. Finally, after thousands of Euros spent on the best experts, a doctor specialist in a different field had asked me a simple question - "Don't you have issues with food for quite a long time?" I was desperate, lost my sponsors and gave up a thought of a comeback, I said it loud for the first time - Yes, I have and I cannot keep up anymore.

I had never admitted it to my relatives or friends, but I slowly made peace with food. It was a struggle, I had gained a lot of weight (15 lbs and then some more), but eventually got healthier and could run. Again I dropped some weight, made some good performances, but turned down contracts and finished my competitive career. Now I run (I wish I could say without pain - always with pain) and occasionaly race, I weigh around 120lbs and am very careful to not count a single calorie again in my life. I force myself to eat also junk food and NOT feel guilty, but it requires lots of focus. My wife, I am sure of it, knows about those issues, but we never talked about it, and I would deny my problems. She is happy that I eat what she cooks, that I am reasonably happy with myself and that we could both run. My biggest fear is to not transpond my f***ed up thinking about nutrition to my kids. I would rather kill myself than to let them live through the hell I did for so many years.

I hope this helps to the OP and decides it's not worth the trouble to lose few pounds she doesn't need to lose.

I'm going to go on a major diet thanks to all this talk, I am about 6 feet tall and weight about 160 pounds, I'm going to try and drop downt the 140's. Is this a bad idea?

Hi Spidey, Fancy meeting you over here...hehe!at "letsbabble". (welcome abroad) LOL!

Ok, yeah, it would make sense to weigh...and I did get some pain meds for moi's heel. I just wanted to make a point you can say no..And I know you know... _.

Hi Ben, I totally agree. Just because one stops running, a food disorder does not go away. In fact, it may make it worse. And the effects of ED (hmm, seems user friendly)Eating disorder is major. It's sort sneaks up on ya. Depression, anxiety..(for moi, big time), and all that goes with it.

Infertility. I'm now blessed with 2 beauties though I did and miscarried several times before and after each child.

I survived and was able to ride the roller coaster of hormones and disappointments. Had I not recovered my life would be completely different

Thankfully, I had recovered to face the rest of my life. Ya'know you just don't know what's in store for ya, and well, I'm pleased as punch I chose to heal and live my life and all that goes with it.

I looked at my life while I was hugging a toilet. Yeah...can you believe it...talk about how low can ya go...LOL!

I did not want to live that way anymore (eeewwww).....who wants that...not moi. So, I actually said, "That's it! enough's enough"...on with it. I said to my heart, "whatever I have to do I'll do"...I wanted to live.

And yes Ben, while the topic may be sad....there's a lot of hope in chatting about it, as you are aware. More needs to be done.

I am recovered...and while I didn't seek "professional" help, I do advocate it.

I was blessed with different people along the way...and no, I didn't tell a whole bunch of people. Just one, maybe two or three at different times. More to justify my abruptness leaving places...If I found myself too deep in anxiety, I'd leave a situation, even if it seemed like an easy small gathering, as fast as I could...(talk about world records....I was on the beam). LOL!!

I didn't start running to get a food disorder. I really wanted to have fun and be happy. Running gave me immense enjoyment and peace immediately. Still does today.

Though the peace part was rediscovered during the struggle of recovery.

During the process, I found I truly wanted to live and be happy, so my pursuit continued. I stopped physically purging in Novemeber of '82, if I remember correctly. I had started in the late 70's. I never even heard or knew of the words anorexia, bulimia, purging, bingeing. ( I guess I had a limited vocabulary..lol! A sheltered life indeed).

The process for me took years, as it was a multi-layered healing. Physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually and all that goes with it in each. There would be tremendous progress at times....Ya'know I don't even know when it ended....I just sorta got on with my life.

Now, during the recovery, I didn't go around sad. No, no, no. For me, I did what I could and I wasn't sad. I was sad and frustrated and unhappy in the stranglehold of ED.

During the re-introduction to everyday life, a simple "hello" or a "good morning" to somebody would be all I could do for a day, maybe, two. I started with baby steps.

And yes, I recognized the challenge, as much as the reward. At times I was on top of the moon because I could do something like that was simple. It would carry me for days and I would gather my gumption and do it again until it became part of me.

Something I imagined everybody could do without thinking.

Hi Intentionally anonymous,

Do you have somebody you could chat to about what you are feeling? A clergy, perhaps? Have you given any thought about joining a group?

I'm so glad you're posting.

If you would like email me and we could chat a bit.

Hey dumbass, this is something that should have been red-flagged by you or your parents during the recruiting process. You buy the ticket, you take the ride. It astonishes me that an 18-year-old girl and her parents can visit an institution, talk to the coaches and athletes and not realize that a weight-restriction program of this intensity is going on. "Gee, all those girls looked extremely skinny... but I'm sure it's just natural!" Morons. I doesn't take a wizard to figure out which programs have severe eating problems (Hello Duke!) and if you're really so stupid that you can't ask the right questions, just look at the team's running pictures.

TLDR: What the hell were you thinking?

Thanks for the offer, Patti. No groups in my country for these disorders, unless, you are clinically diagnosed with it. I never was and hopefully, it would never return to the extent that I ever will be. Lost a cousin to anorexia, so I know what the worst outcome could be.

I just don't, under any circumstances, want my kids to experience any ED, ever. I am not going to let them run competitively, nor will I allow them to participate in sports where weight could be issue (gymnastics, figure skating...).

For example - I get furious to 'well-meaning' comments about chubbyness of my kids, and how 'cute' (read - what are you feeding them - look at my kids) they look being plump. At their age - now - they could care less, but eventually, it can become an issue. Why anybody should be even concerned about a toddler's shape, if he/she is not obese or undernourished? People could be mean and this society is sick, striving for wierd 'perfection'... It could also be because I am still sensitive to those comments and/or am surrounded by running friends, who have warped ideas about body images.

Patti, I don't have your e-mail and I won't reveal to this forum mine, but thanks for the outreached hand. I think and hope, I can go on with my life.

Well, here it is...click on my name.

looking forward to chatting with you.

OOPS! Let's try that again shall we...

I'm glad this thread is here. I have been coaching college women for a long time (D3) and fortunately have had to deal with this on only one occasion.

I must defend my profession though: I believe it is a very tiny percentage of coaches who preach about weight, conduct "weigh-ins" or say/do anything else to actively or implicitly encourage destructive eating behaviors. Of course, the few do give us all a bad name. Such is life.

Maybe these coaches are concentrated at the D1 level, and behave the way they do because they feel pressure to do so. I don't know- I ran in a D1 program, and I am positive our coach never did that.

The one time in my career I had to deal with an anorexic athlete, it was the most delicate difficult thing I've had to do. It's hard to have "the conversation" with someone when they've already shown signs of instability, and even harder to get them to acknowledge the problem and get treatment. In our case, the girl denied and denied and denied some more that there was a problem, even though she was clearly way underweight and showed every "red flag" behavior in the book. It placed an emotional burden on all of us (runners and coaches) because we all felt like deer in the headlights...wanting to help, but not sure what to do. The hardest thing about it, and something that I did not see mentioned in this thread, is that her MOTHER could not see there was a problem either! That stunned me.

Anyway, it took a lot of time and patience, but we were able to keep our friend close to us while she fought her fight, and she did FINALLY get better. She now says the fight will always be there for her, but she's grateful we intervened when we did. I say all this not because I am some genius at helping college women overcome eating disorders, but to highlight the importance of reaching out to people who need help. It is not easy and you will probably anger/alienate them in the short term, but you could also be the one to save their life. I am almost crying as I write this, but remember, the longer it goes on, the less chance there is of recovery! People die from this so athletes, coaches, don't ignore it.

Gayz wrote:

themanontherun wrote:

Just eat lot of grains, veggies, fruits, lean meats, drinks lots of water, you'll be fine.

Don't transfer unless you're explicitly pressured to calorie cut.

Fun Fact: 30-40% of runners are pressured to calorie cut.

Fun Fact: 68% of statistics are made up.

8965dsg745 wrote:

Hey dumbass, this is something that should have been red-flagged by you or your parents during the recruiting process. You buy the ticket, you take the ride. It astonishes me that an 18-year-old girl and her parents can visit an institution, talk to the coaches and athletes and not realize that a weight-restriction program of this intensity is going on. "Gee, all those girls looked extremely skinny... but I'm sure it's just natural!" Morons. I doesn't take a wizard to figure out which programs have severe eating problems (Hello Duke!) and if you're really so stupid that you can't ask the right questions, just look at the team's running pictures.

TLDR: What the hell were you thinking?

It's not that easy because generally runners are thin. Some of them are indeed naturally skinny. There are different body types. That's why it is so easy to hide the disease as a runner.

Intentionally Anonymous, I can relate to your story. I am sorry you feel embarrassed about it. I have too, but have realized I can help more people by sharing what I have gone through. I think EDs are more common than people think, but not everyone ever gets diagnosed. I was never officially diagnosed because I avoided it despite my parents' efforts. I was in complete denial, even after I kept getting injured. I thought things like "well, I did eat a PowerBar today, so I am eating."

There is also a lot of misunderstanding about EDs. Some people think it's a problem they can fix, or more absurdly, fix for someone else. "Just eat." But it's a disease. Depression is a disease and this is a form of it. When you are not emotionally and mentally healthy, you try and find a way to make yourself feel better, to make yourself feel and look in control. That's why it feels good when others "encourage" you by commenting on how good you look and/or how fast you're running. So you continue.

This has been a great discussion so far, and while I rarely post on this forum, I feel encouraged to do so, especially after reading Patti's and Ben's posts.

I am a female runner in her late 20's, and I have struggled with severe anorexia/bulimia since the age of 15. Running is probably the only reason that I continue to fuel my body in any capacity, but as the anonymous poster noted about his struggle, this is not the kind of disorder that you wish on your worst enemy. It is pure torture, and, unfortunately, it is a huge issue in the running community - for both men and women.

I can attest to the performance gains from low weight and low body fat, but the flip side is so true: you eventually end up injured, burnt out and cursing the sport you initially loved. I think once you've struggled with an ED, it never goes away completely; it hibernates at times, but it can be triggered pretty quickly. And even if you do not act on the feelings, the thoughts continue to haunt you.

For any runner currently dealing with an ED, I urge you to talk to your coaches, family, friends. Denial is a huge part of EDs, but living with the consequences - which are unavoidable - is not worth the short-lived performance gains.

I am a tick away from osteoporosis. I was even closer to qualifying for the Olympic Trials in 2008. But with fragile bones and a fragile mind, my running dreams are dead. I have tried everything to quiet this storm in my mind and absolutely nothing has worked . . . if I could turn back the clock and re-set my thinking, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Hiya back at ya Patti --

Yes, of course I think it is fine to say "no" to being weighed. Although I think there may be a benefit to having some records of ones weight over a competitve career in case the coach and athlete want to go back over the data. But I think if the choice is whether to never take one's weight or obsessively record one's weight, then I would choose to never check it.

I have some friends in my running group who obsess a bit about weight, and at our age (30s and 40s) I usually encourage them to do what I do these days -- I don't own a scale and don't really know what I weigh.

But then, I'm probably one of those who runs so I can keep eating pizza, rather than the other way around (and Patti has seen me eat -- I think she knows I'm not kidding). And of course, I am no elite athlete. I remember meeting Grete Waitz at Boston 2004, and I just walked away feeling unfit and morbidly obese.

Hi ED,

Yes, talking to somebody about it is a huge step toward capturing your life back.

I found food disorder torture only when I wanted to opt out. For me only then was it torture....and I tried many times to get out of it...hmm, I'd say from 1980- Nov 82 was brutal...after I made the decision to STOP...and gripping the kitchen cabiinets...did I truly understand the meaning of "one day at a time" "take it easy".

If only it was so easy to get out as it is to get in.

At first I loved it....ok, the purging part not so much...ya kinda get over that in short order. Because the "rewards" are fantastic... I know, I know, it's crazy thinking...but that's how it is...I thought I had a secret weapon...

eat a dorito...HI!

You're heading the nail on the head...depression plays a contributing part..perhaps it's the part.Sorta Catch 22.

Trying to fill up or compensate for not "feeling" full of life and wanting a full life...what ever it means you...ya'know.

And yeah, compliments will get you to do just about anything...hmm.

1. Runners, and society in general, thinks that if they exercise a lot they can just eat whatever they want, ie: "If the fire is hot enough..."

2. Runners, and again society in general, thinks being lighter = being fitter. Losing weight doesn't automatically make you more fit.

3. The inability to accept genetic differences. We all can't be 5'3', 110lbs. We are all not destined to be built like a Kenyan.

If you train and eat right your weight will settle at a performance enhancing limit. Stop eating ice cream and nachos every night. Eat wholesome natural foods. Don't eat white bread. Eat what I call a single-ingredient diet:

Carbs:

Potatoes

Rice

Oats

Legumes/Lentils

Meat: with every meal

Lean beef

Lean pork

Chicken

Fish

Eggs

Veggies:

Any non-starch or non-root veggie, as much as you want. With EVERY meal.

Fruits:

Stick with fruit in the morning or post long-workout. The problem with fruit is that it is typically high in fructose which is ONLY either stored in the liver OR converted to fat. So, eat fruit when liver glycogen is low.

Alan