Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 2/7

BostonBound,

Unfortunately, this time, we have more in common. My knee is killing me! It looks like I have pes anserine tendonitis... i.e. tendinitis of my inner knee. I am going to an ortho guy on Thur, but that is what my GP thinks it is.

This ortho does Platelet-Rich-Plasma injections, which is what Tegencamp had done last year... I'm curious if he will recommend that for me. I am hoping I go there and he says "brace it up, ice every day, here is a cortisone shot, and get back out there"... though I doubt that last part will occur. I'll probably take today off, try running tomorrow and Wed if I can do it without limping, and hope for the best on Thur. Figure either he's going to say you can run through it if you can manage the pain and I'll do that, or he's going to say take 2 or 3 weeks off, in which case, I'll probably be out of Boston and running tomorrow and Wed won't really matter anyway (i.e. if I make it worse). Just don't feel confident that I can take 2 weeks off now and be back in time for a sub 2:40 with 6 weeks of training before the taper. Especially considering if I take 2 weeks off, I'll have to start back at like 40 mpw, probably.

Didn't say anything because I didn't want you guys to think I was a whiner (between the hip/hammy and now this). Maybe the 32 year old body is catching up with me.

Oh well, we'll see what happens.

2TM - Get better. Seems like you've been getting punched from both sides with injuries. I won't whine about skipping my 5 mile recovery run this pm.... Get better...

Yeah, I tend to try and run through everything, but this one is just too painful. It is so stiff every time I get up from my desk, I can't walk without this massive limp. On the plus side, when it warms up, it feels SO much better. Waled to my GP today and when I started, I was a mess. By the time I got there, I was barely limping.

My question is, let's say I took 2 weeks off right now... how would I even get ready in 6 weeks (again, before taper). I mean, I can't jump into 70-100 mile weeks after 2 weeks off. Cross training will be difficult... what could I do that doesn't effect the knee? No pool to swim at, unfortunately.

I guess I could run for 45-60 min every day and then elliptical for an hour a day or something for a couple weeks and then try and run 70, 80, 90, 100 for 4 weeks before tapering. Guess I would probably go to the line fit, but not race ready. Argh. I just hope tomorrow I miraculously wake up and feel better.

Marathon: New Jersey Shore Marathon - 5/2/10

Goal: 2:59

Hello All,

Good job in your training folks! you guys are training very well. My training was descent, this is what I did:

Monday - A.M - 43:11 easy/ P.M - 59:58 easy + 5 strides

Tuesday - P.M - 58:10 easy

Wednesday - A.M -50:03 easy/P.M - 20:00 w/up +

5X1:00 fast/1:00 walk +

4X1:00 fast/1:00 walk +

3X1:00 fast/1:00 walk +

2X1:00 fast/1:00 walk +

1X1:00 fast + / 2:30 walk in between sets

20:00 c/d

Thursday - A.M - 42:50 easy/P.M - 1:02:23 easy

Friday - P.M - 58:00 easy + 5 strides

Saturday - A.M - 1:01:14 easy + 5 strides

Sunday - A.M - 60:00 easy + 2X2 miles @ marathon pace (14:13,14:06)/3:30 walk + 10:00 c/d

Total miles for the week: 71 miles

Hope everyone has a great week.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother to post...I really feel like a piker compared to many of you on this board.

Boston

3:06

M - 0

T - 5

W - 8

T - 6.5

F - 17.5

S - 3

S - 8

48 miles total. Felt pretty good....Wednesday was tough because the route was covered in snow. The long run on Friday was at about 7:45 pace. Got a little tired toward the end, but that was to be expected. The run yesterday was good...got it done pretty quick.

Ten weeks to go. I'm really looking forward to warmer weather. I'm sick of running in the low teens.

2TM,

Arggh, man, that sucks. At 32, you are still a young pup in marathon terms so don't get down on yourself. Suggest you bring a little ice cooler to work and strap an ice bag on for 15min at a time when you are at your desk. I did this for my foot. Ibuprofen will help as well (although I try to avoid the stuff otherwise). Your ortho is likely to say get off of it for a while as you know. So any training that continues to aggravate it is out. A cortisone shot will stop the inflammation but will also inhibit healing so be informed about that option.

While it would suck to have to let Boston go for this year it might be the smarter option if this doesn't clear up in the next 2-3 weeks. You've got lots more marathons in you anyway.

I saw this in JAMA a few weeks ago.http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/303/2/144Doesn't look like it does much in a randomized controlled setting. I'll be interested to hear the ortho's opinion.Luck.

2ndTimeMarathoner wrote:

This ortho does Platelet-Rich-Plasma injections, which is what Tegencamp had done last year... I'm curious if he will recommend that for me. I am hoping I go there and he says "brace it up, ice every day, here is a cortisone shot, and get back out there"... though I doubt that last part will occur.

Yeah Pittsburgh, I know it wouldn't be the end of the world. I have Chicago this year afterall. But I'm jazzed up about Boston. I am determined to try and manage through it. I know that isn't best, but I'm going to ice like crazy and heat before my run and see what happens. Will try going tomorrow. Feels a little better tonight, which I'm happy about.

2TM - I know us runners are supposed to always have something nagging at us, whether it be knees, hips, hammys, feet, etc...but it seems like you're going through enough for everyone. I hope it's nothing you can't work through. I know what you mean about being "jazzed" up for Boston...I totally want to show up in top form there.

But jeez, 32 isn't old...I'm only 24 and had a rough patch like this for 18 months about 2 years ago. It seemed like everytime I would get in decent shape, something else would come up and knock me out for a few months. You seem like you know how to deal with whatever comes at you...I wouldn't bag Boston just yet.

2TM, sorry to hear about your problems.

As for running Boston, I think you can give it two weeks and see. I've been following Pfitzinger and in the book Advanced Marathoning he says if you're more than 8 weeks out from your goal race you can miss 10-20 days without changing your goal time. Within 8 weeks if you miss less than 10 days you can continue with your goal. Any more and you should reconsider your goal. Now that we're closing in on 8 weeks I'm giving myself 10 days to start running normal again and another 5-10 to be back full tilt. If those deadlines are not hit I'll probably skip Boston.

Looking back at my marathon PR of 2:41. I missed skipped 2 weeks of running from weeks 11 to 9 in the my training schedule (went to switzerland for vacation and didn't want to bother running). Picked up where I left off when I got back and ran my best time by far. Maybe it actually helped since I haven't been close to that time since. So that give me hope and it should give you hope too.

Pablo, I hear ya man. I would have told you leading up to NY that age was in the mind... this cycle, though, the nagging stuff seems to hurt more and last longer.

Anyway, was really aggressive yesterday with icing and was able to do 9 this morning easy. I put some icey hot on it and took some ibuprofen and it didn't hurt too bad.

Been alternating ice and heat today and work and just got back from a relatively pain free 6. I think I will be able to train by staying on top of the ice/heat/ibuprofen/icey hot routine every day. What a roller coaster. I can't wait for the time when I just post my week without any hitches. Here's for hoping that will be the remainder of this week and going forward.

Some great training going on yet again......

Pablo - Nightmare! Really sorry to hear the race got screwed up through no fault of your own. Regardless, a great week, excellent volume and you'd have posted a significantly faster time if it wasn't for being mis-directed. The 8k will have had an excellent training effect in any case so don't be disheartened.

Another - Congrats on clocking a ton. I think you could drop the mileage back a bit as you suggested as long as you get the key sessions in, I reckon 2:49 is on the cards. I don't wear an HRM, just run on perceived effort or by pace for key sessions.

BB - That's very encouraging, sounds like the knee is headed in the right direction. Got my fingers-crossed mate.

Ossur - Great to hear you're feeling better. I don't do any warm-up before a marathon, maybe jog for a minute or 2 at most.

2TM - Delighted to hear that your leg was behaving during your long run, good news. Great pace too. Sorry to hear about the knee, you're not whining. But at 32 you are just a spring chicken mate, I'm 40!

AJ - Excellent that things are going in the right direction. Would be good to meet up in Berlin, we'll have to organise something nearer the time. BTW, the 29M on Sunday is astonishing especially with a fast 5k thrown in there. Good man.

PJ - FWIW I agree with2TM and Pablo.

Bostonchick - I've worked my way through a fair number of programs over the years (e.g., Higdon, Daniels, Pfitzinger) as well as some I've constructed myself. Think it's very much a matter of finding what works best for you. To that end, I'm always tweaking and have never done exactly the same program twice. That said, last time through I did a Pfitz variant, doing a 12 week program after 6 weeks of "base training". For Berlin this year, I'll do something similar, but plan to double the length of the base phase and then do a 12 week marathon-specific plan with sessions on Tues + Fri, medium long on Weds and long run on Sun. Happy to fill in the detail if I haven't already bored you to tears!

JewOn - Cracking 1/2M in the 20M. I think 2:30 is still achievable. Forge ahead and see how the next 6 weeks go.

Thanks for all the kind words everyone.

2TM - I have some experience with pes anserine bursitis. Last winter/spring, as I was getting geared up for the Indy Mini, my left inner knee started killing me. It was bad. I was really worried that I had torn something. I took a few days off, iced, took ibuprofen, etc. Nothing really made much of a difference. Then I went to an ortho and he checked it out. He diagnosed it as pes anserine and suggested a cortisone shot. I agreed and he gave me the shot. He told me to take a day off and then try running a little. It was still sore for a few days, but within a week, there was no pain whatsoever in the knee. I built my mileage back up quickly and got right back into the swing of things. I ended up having a great race two months later and have not had a single hint of pain in the knee since then. That was a year ago. So my suggestion would be to talk to your ortho about a cortisone shot. It definitely worked for me.

Lets keep this thread rolling!!!!

Goal Sub 2:20 Boston Marathon

monday- 35 min easy, 68 mins easy

tuesday- 35 min easy, 12 x 800 (r)90 seconds in avg 2:23

wednesday- 35 min easy, 68 mins easy

thursday- 34 min easy, 67 mins easy

friday- 35 min easy, 3 x 3mile (r)3minutes avg 15:28

saturday- 35 min easy, 69 mins easy

sunday- 23 mile avg 6:43

Really getting excited for the next few weeks of training as i hope everyone else is too.

Goodluck!