Just curious to see what people are thinking about Penn State's early season progress especially on the mid-distance side. Beth has a bit of a history of having athletes run fast early and then fall off late...do you think this is another year of that, or perhaps an indoor NCAA DMR championship and Penn Relay crown is a possibility??
P.S. Borchers running 9:00ish for 3K isn't helping the team...
DMR really isn't their forte without a real stud in the mile (these days you need a guy well under 4, it seems, to really have a good shot). Two years ago I would've assumed Borchers would be that stud, but who knows where he's headed.
The obvious talent, though, should excel in the 800 and 1200 legs. The problem is, any of those guys is "wasted" by moving up to the mile or down to the 400, and PSU loses any advantage there. And since they don't have a whole lot in the way of 400m sprinters (even though that's the least important leg), that hurts.
That said, the Penn Relays 4x8 is a definite possiblity. Hell, their times on the same day in an indoor meet in January added up to 7:14. Now I know PSU has a history of peaking early, and a lot of that I feel lately is due to the coaches' pressure to put on some top caliber meets/performances since they have a great indoor facility. And in keeping up with the Jones's, it can be tough from a coaching perspective to have all that money (the facilities) at your fingertips and not consistently produce good results every week.
Anyway, the BAS angle isn't too important, since John Gondak is in charge of those guys mostly. And he's clearly done some great things, both with recruiting and with developing the athletes.
And hell, on the plus side, if PSU does do the "peak in January for indoor and peak in April for outdoor" thing, at least they'll be ready for Penn.
Any word on if/when Devon Smith will be sprinting for Penn State? He was great in high school.
Another football player, AJ Price, never ran track until spring of his senior year in high school and went over 24'in the long jump. He was also a top 200/400 guy. Penn State is weak in the sprints and jumps, and needs these guys on the team.
why couldn't foster run a solid mile???
219 at 1000
147 at 800
and they have 2 others at 148, so have one run 800 and the other 1200.
If PSU enters their top team, i think theres no doubt they'll be contenders.
tennis players are HOT wrote:
why couldn't foster run a solid mile???
I'm not saying he CAN'T, just that he HASN'T (that I know of). To concede him a 3:57 mile is a bit premature for a guy who's really only ever been an 800 guy (but who obviously shows some promise over longer distances).
With all the talent in the NCAA these days (Oregon, etc), it seems like having a guy who can run a few seconds under 4:00 is needed if you're going to win a championship (or at least run a top time, since we know that the DMRs at NCAAs aren't always blazing fast).
There's only so much time you can make up on an 800 and 1200 leg, and without a 400 stud, I'd say that going into the final handoff, Penn State would likely be towards the front of the pack, but not necessarily even in the lead. Then the milers take the track, and having someone you know can bang out a 3:56 if needed (guys like Ulrey and such) helps your team a lot more at that point. However, if it becomes one of those BS "string the field out through three honest legs and then everyone regroup for the mile and trip over each other while kicking the last 300m" ordeals, Foster would be an ideal guy to have carrying the stick for PSU.
I don't think they can really compete, strictly because of mile legs, with teams like Oregon and Arkansas.
4x8 I think they're up with their with everyone though.
adadfd wrote:
I don't think they can really compete, strictly because of mile legs, with teams like Oregon and Arkansas.
4x8 I think they're up with their with everyone though.
That's exactly what I've been saying.
I heard from an inside source that Sam Borchers is living the good ole college party lifestyle, nothing like it. Hopefully he settles down a bit and returns to top form.
psuinsider87 wrote:
I heard from an inside source that Sam Borchers is living the good ole college party lifestyle, nothing like it. Hopefully he settles down a bit and returns to top form.
lol. all the 800 guys at penn state live the 'good ole college party lifestyle' too.
from MY inside source...borchers has been banged up with injuries since cross. maybe once his injury(ies) 'settle down' he can return to top form.
considering he's run 4:01/1:48 indoors...i think he knows what he's doing when it comes to his lifestyle.
so for now we'll throw a big ?? at the DMR due to the mile leg.
however, with 2 147 guys and 2 148 guys indoor (assuming borchers gets back to shape by spring), they'll have a pretty nasty 4x800 team for outdoors.
is there any other NCAA team that has 4 148 or better 800 guys indoor?
tennis players are HOT wrote:
...however, with 2 147 guys and 2 148 guys indoor (assuming borchers gets back to shape by spring), they'll have a pretty nasty 4x800 team for outdoors.
Except they won't because you can't run 1:47 for 4 months straight. These guys are hot as it gets now... I wouldn't be surprised if they're cooked by the time they get to Arkansas.
;lkajsdfa wrote:Now I know PSU has a history of peaking early, .
Your evidence?
tennis players are HOT wrote:
however, with 2 147 guys and 2 148 guys indoor (assuming borchers gets back to shape by spring), they'll have a pretty nasty 4x800 team for outdoors.
While this analysis is pretty good it missed the fact that they actually have a 5th 1:48 guy in this mix that folks may wish to not forget.
Lionel Williams is quite a speedy character and while he managed only a 1:50.15 in his opening 800 meters this past weekend something tells me there is more under the hood.
PSU is Half Miler U.
Oregon for sure, with wheating(1:46 guy helps), greer, 1:47 guy 2 years ago, fleet(just split 2:54 for 1200, very likely in 1:48. X shape, + either Acosta or centro, 2 sub 3:58 guys. And I maybe forgetting someone.
Then Virginia has Roller, 1:47X guy, Andrews we all know, Lobb, 1:49.39 guy, and freshman in Vrhovac as 1:50.5 guy + a miler like brett johnson and a few others.
Penn state looks hot now, and probably the early season favorites at 4x8, but not by much
Foster won Big Tens indoors and outdoors last year. He ran 1:47.57 in the prelims at NCAA outdoors (the fastest time in the prelims), he ran 1:56.78 in the semi-finals, and he ran 1:47.81 in the finals for 8th. How in the world is this "peaking early?"
Owen Dawson was second in the Big Ten indoors (second to Foster). He set his PR (1:49.58) in the prelims at Big Tens outdoors and finished third in the final. I'll give you that he didn't run that well at NCAA Regionals, but PRing at Big Tens both indoors and outdoors is not "peaking early."
Lionel Williams finished second indoors in the 600 at Big Tens in 1:17.65. He finished fourth in the Big Tens outdoors (the third PSU runner). He ran his PR of 1:48.99 at NCAA Regionals and finished 7th in the finals at Regionals. How is this "peaking early?"
I meant to say 1:46.78
I do agree with this, though.
what the? wrote:
;lkajsdfa wrote:Now I know PSU has a history of peaking early, .Your evidence?
I'm not doing your homework for you. If you've paid attention you know I'm right.
Exhibit A: Matt Lincoln. Ran some really fast times (including a 4:01 split on the DMR) indoors his senior year, and could hardly break 4:00 in the 1500 outdoors.
peaking early?? wrote:
Foster won Big Tens indoors and outdoors last year. He ran 1:47.57 in the prelims at NCAA outdoors (the fastest time in the prelims), he ran 1:56.78 in the semi-finals, and he ran 1:47.81 in the finals for 8th. How in the world is this "peaking early?"
Owen Dawson was second in the Big Ten indoors (second to Foster). He set his PR (1:49.58) in the prelims at Big Tens outdoors and finished third in the final. I'll give you that he didn't run that well at NCAA Regionals, but PRing at Big Tens both indoors and outdoors is not "peaking early."
Lionel Williams finished second indoors in the 600 at Big Tens in 1:17.65. He finished fourth in the Big Tens outdoors (the third PSU runner). He ran his PR of 1:48.99 at NCAA Regionals and finished 7th in the finals at Regionals. How is this "peaking early?"
I said PSU. I didn't say "these three guys specifically last year."
Context, man.
byahhh wrote:
Except they won't because you can't run 1:47 for 4 months straight. These guys are hot as it gets now... I wouldn't be surprised if they're cooked by the time they get to Arkansas.
You can run 1:47 for 4 months straight if you're a 1:45 guy in the making. Also, Loxsom was 1:47.9, so he's actually closer to 1:48.5 than he is 1:47 flat.