Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 1/24

BostonBound wrote:

Motorbreath: Quote: "Is it worth using gels on runs this long or should I be training my body to use fat for fuel? Interested in peoples' opinions."

I like Greg McMillan's philosophy on this. No gels for long easy runs where you're just getting in time on your feet. Only use gels for long runs with MP efforts involved and you need to practice. This way you teach or body to become more efficient. He suggests working up to a morning long run without breakfast or any gels. But. You have to work up to it over a long period of time. I still eat a bagel or something before I head out.

The feeling of being totally depleted will make you physically and mentally stronger. The only negative would be slow recovery. But if you can handle that, you're fine.

I'm in total agreement. Only difference, substitute "granola bar" for "bagel"

Everyone: thank you for the posts. It's inspirational to see what others are doing.

Marathon: London 2010

Goal: Sub-2:40

Monday: 7 miles easy

Tuesday: 2 miles warmup, 13 miles tempo (average 5:50-5:55 pace)

Wednesday: AM 6 miles easy, PM 8 miles aerobic (~6:30 pace)

Thursday: AM 6 miles easy, PM 8 miles easy

Friday: AM 5 miles easy, PM 10 miles aerobic (~6:15 pace)

Saturday: 8 miles easy

Sunday: 19 miles long, 6:15-6:30 pace. Had originally intended to do 23, but like others I have been dealing with a cold and did not want to exhaust myself.

Total: 92 miles

Here's to a healthy week for all!

I like many here, only take water (if that) on long runs. I rarely take gels, even if doing MP. Though I do fuel up a little more on MP long runs versus no pre-fuel on regular LR's. Plus I just don't have a stock of gels usually lying around.

So how does everyone take their H2O with them? I've got a fuel belt. I hate it. It always kills my hips and lower abs after I'm done and for a couple of days after the run. I guess the tightness of the belt (so it doesn't fall off), plus the pressure on those muscles really doesn't help, but unless I want to carry a bottle on the run it works. Maybe I should look into getting one of those handhelds? The fuel belt is nice because you can basically maintain pace and on those hot, humid days I can take 42oz of liquid with me.

I leave water at my house and do 6 or 7 mile loops. So I grab my bottle off my car on loop one, drink, take a gel if I'm practicing that, and continue on. I usually toss the bottle after about a 1/4 mile on the side of the road. Then 2nd time through I grab it again and do the same. Toss it again about 1/4 mile away. So now the bottle is about 1/2 mile from my house at the side of the road. On the 3rd loop, I go and pick it up and finish up. So I never need to run with it for more then 1/2 a mile.

Thanks for all the input on gels and fuelling guys - very helpful. Rotterdam will be my first marathon so I am definitely learning as I go along and this is one area that I have been wondering about.

For the record, I do all my long runs without eating beforehand. I guess they're fuelled by last night's dinner which seems fine if I'm running earlier AM. My typical long run route has a number of water fountains along the way so I can at least take a quick drink. I'll be running two half marathons at MP in my build-up and see these as the opportunity to practice proper fuelling and hydration. In the meantime, it does feel like a good idea both physically and psychologically to learn how to run on empty - last week's 22 miler was definitely a good one for "callusing the mind"!

Cheers,

MB.

I generally do long runs along routes with water fountains or other sources of available drinking water. For example, on my standard 20 miler, there's a Burger King about 4.5 miles in that is good about letting you get a water cup (though I rarely do), there's a bank of port-a-potties and water fountains along the South Platte river trail at Mile High stadium about 8 miles in, nice facilities at the big REI about 11 miles in, yet another Burger King about 15 miles in, and then a park with water fountains about 18 miles in. I'll typically only take water once (usually at Mile High or the REI), but on really hot days, I've been known to stop up to three times.

Wild boar: That's a lot of high intensity. The 13mi tempo is interesting. It seems quite long for tempo pace. Do you ever run 7-8mi tempo? If so what pace? From your long tempo pace to your aerobic pace, it looks like you're more like a 2:34 to 2:35 guy. While that is "sub 2:40" I'm guessing you were looking for something more like 2:39. Anyway, nice job.

Another: I've been struggling to figure out a long run hydration plan too. I usually go without water, but it's not good. For MP long runs I've done gel and no water which sucks. I hate to think of doing loops around my home because it's such a mental challenge. I'd want to stop everytime I finished a loop. I also don't think I could handle a hydration belt. I haven't tried it, but even the keys in my pocket are a pain. I think for my next MP long run I'm going to run around a 2.25mi pond loop 9 times and leave water on the ground there. At least being away from home I'll be less inclined to quit and I can zone out better than if I'm doing a loop through the city where I live. I'm a track guy at heart so I like clicking off the laps. As long as the laps are on the short side.

On a side note, you can usually stock up on gels at a good price if you ask the vendors at race expos to sell you a whole box of 24. They're typically selling them individually for ~$1.25 or something but you can get a box of 24 for $24 if you ask. This is why I always have a big supply.

Boston

3:05

Nice step back week...which was great on the legs.

M - Off

T - 6

W - 6.5

Th - 8.5

F - 4

S - 10

S - 6

41 for the week. Saturday's run was pretty hilly with a few 6:30s between 6 - 9.

Sub 2:40 Los Angeles

9miles 7min pace

8miles 7min pace

5 mile Threshold at 27:32

8miles 6:40 pace

Day off

Saturday: 14 miles at 6:30 pace

Sunday: 8 miles at 7min pace

52 in 6 days

Another week back to slightly higher mileage. Suar - you beat me by a mile and I'd love to be "mortal" enough to toss in a 56 min 15k. Nice job.

As far as the gel/hydration issue, I know several runners who "toughed it out" through training by skipping gels (and often water) only to have stomach issues in the race itself. I can't think of a single individual who's ever said "man, if only I hadn't used gels in training I could have raced faster".

Mon - 4 easy

Tues - 8 Hill run, 7:30 avg

Wed - 7 Easy pace on tough trails

Thurs - 11.5 (same as wed)

Fri - 12.5 total Included 8x3 min hard (5:40 ish) 2 min rec.

Sat - 6 easy

Sun - 17 Couple of mile long climbs, finished w/ 3 mi (flat) in 19:15

Goal Race: Boston

Goal Time: 2:40

Great to see everyone having good weeks. I had a bad one that was mostly my own fault. Lost 3 days of running due mostly to allowing work to get in the way

Mon: No run. 20 miles cycling indoor workout (part of a class I'm paying for). Should have run during the afternoon, I just let work get in the way.

Tue: AM: 7.2 easy. PM: 4 mile warmup + 6 x 1 mile with 1 minute rest. Times were 5:37, 5:36, 5:36, 5:32, 5:30, 5:21. (On the last one, I was basically pacing BostonBound who had lapped me)

Wed: PM: 4 miles easy on the treadmill (instead of the 15 I had planned outside). This was all my fault. I forgot my running pants and so couldn't do the run I had planned. Then I got home late and simply had no desire. Forced myself on to the treadmill but just stopped after 4 miles

Thu: Off completely. Worked all day, got home late and just called it a day.

Fri: PM: 11.8 easy

Sat: PM: 8.2 easy Thought I had a track race today and showed up to the meet only to find out I was a day early. Stupid mistake. After last week (in which I missed I race because they changed the schedule on me) I decided to bail on the meet and the indoor track season altogether. I need to get started with actual marathon training

Sun: AM: 16 easy with a friend.

Total: 57.5 miles

I basically skipped 3 days of running this week. The coming week I intend to suck it up and get back on track

About fueling/hydrating... I hate to stop on my long runs. So that's why I like the fuel belt. I took a bottle of water in my jacket pocket on my first 20, but since it wasn't a sports bottle I had to stop and drink it since it was getting all over me. (It was 13F out so I stopped). I had to stop yesterday to take a leak and when I put my fuel belt back on, my middle lower abs were sore after 8.5 miles when I put it back on.... Whereever the front of my fuel belt rested is sore...

My long run routes are basically out and back (10 miles out, 10 miles back). Through residential neighborhoods. I think I'm going to look into getting a handheld. With the dry winter weather and having a cold, I was concerned with dehydrating. I normally wouldn't take water on a 15 miler in winter (in summer I would).

Somedays, I just wish I was fat and slothy again and my biggest concern wasn't how to drink water on 20 milers....

Pablo - Thanks!

I'm hoping to glean great training knowledge from this thread as well. Last year I did Boston off of 6 weeks of training after struggling all winter with lower back problems. This year I feel I have those problems nipped and I'm hoping for a much better training block leading up to Boston. It was kinda scary last year going into Boston knowing my longest long-run leading up to the race was 14 miles about 2 months before.

One thing I thought I would ask to those who pay attention to nutrition: What is your nutrition like during heavy training? Does anyone monitor their weight, or do you just figure it will take care of itself because of the volume of training?

I have to monitor my weight or it will steadily creep upwards. All that training makes me overeat.

As it is, I could stand to lose about 10 pounds right now.

After a marathon I usually eat everything in sight for about a month. This unfortunately means I gain about 10 lbs. So around mid Nov '09 I was up to 168. I made it a goal to try and get down to 152, I only been < 157 once (one day actually). I usually hang around 158-161 in heavy training.

I use this iPhone add called "Lose It" to try and count calories. Basically its your daily calories + exercise calories = food in. I try to do that. I've gotten down to 159 with 12 weeks until Boston.

On long run days I get about 4400-4500 calories to eat. It actually motivates you to run and do double do you can eat more. For example, @ 159.0 and to lose 1 lb a week it says I can eat 1922 calories if I do nothing. I then add how many calories I burn.

jacabo wrote:

What is your nutrition like during heavy training?

I try to eat healthy, but sometimes just give in to whatever my body craves. Hard for me to go into details about what I eat...but I will say that I have 3 sqaure meals a day with snacks in between every meal (and after dinner).

jacabo wrote:

Does anyone monitor their weight, or do you just figure it will take care of itself because of the volume of training?

I do monitor my weight, but it really doesn't flucuate all that much, pretty much hovers from 133-138. Although, one problem I did have with my taper leading up to Chicago last year was gaining weight. I was at race weight the week prior and put on like 4-5 lbs before the marathon. I'll definitely try to watch my weight during my taper for Boston.

Pittsburgh May 4, 2010

Goal TDB

I feel like I should start a 'Marathon Training Thread for Amateurs"! You guys are cranking out the miles. For me, just over thirty miles last week and achilles is still feeling 100%. Time to add a fifth day of running and bump the miles for the next month.

Mon off

Tues 5mi.

Weds. lift

Thurs 6mi

Fri off

Sat 10mi (15k race)

Sun 10mi.

Good luck and stay healthy, everyone.

2TM

Really hope you get the piriformis issue sorted. Looking forward to seeing you annihilate your PB.

Another

Solid week mate, nice one.

Pablo

Wasn't sure if having a limey kick the thread off was breaking etiquette - thanks for the reassurance. Very sensible approach to training.

track meat

Great week.

BB, A_J

Cracking set of 1600s. Is that around 10k pace/effort? Some great runs in that week.

AKM

Are you doing the cruise intervals at something like half marathon effort?

niarun

Hang in there - it'll come right.

suar, AR, PJ, Motorbreath, jacabo, singingloud, WB, Ossur, VFR, Mike

Excellent training chaps.

CTA

Take it easy for a bit. IMHO, think I'd go with an autumn marathon and once you've fully recovered from Houston, you could spend a few months working on 10k and 1/2M before getting back into marathon training.

DR

Think that's the right approach - no point in forcing it.

Agree with earlier comments regarding gels during training. Often carry one during the long run but only take it if I feel like I'm gonna get into trouble. Otherwise, I just take them during a couple of longer MP runs, just to practice fueling when running at race pace/effort.

In terms of nutrition, like others, I make sure I'm eating right when in heavy training, but I do still have to keep an eye on quantities otherwise I gradually gain weight even when doing 90+ mpw.

Another question or two for the thread:

- how many marathons have you done and how much improvement have you seen in your times?

- what sort of conversion do you get from your 10k/half to marathon time?