Yes, it's sooo hard. The kid I knew with a ~750 GMAT came here in 2007 from CHina - he went to Fudong(spelling?) university... told me it's 4th ranked in China.
He told me that in China he was top of the top from kindergarten up through middle school and every single year he stood out as the best of the best. He told me he also grew up in Shanghai which is like the wealthiest area of China - and all other areas west of it are very poor.
Point being that there are some mediocre/underperforming students in China (as there are in any population) but you never hear about them as they stay in poverty in rural areas of China. The stereotypes and ones you see in the USA excelling on the Math Team and such are mostly a cream of the crop selection from China.
Run Sub 2:34 & Get Extra Credit on SAT / Chinese Cheating Scandal
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actually it was this place
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fudan_University
[edit] Ranking
In 2008, Fudan University ranked 3rd overall among universities in the mainland of China in "The Times Higher Education Supplement 2008 - The World's Top 200 Universities" [2][3]. It was placed in the world's top 200 list, ranked 113, after Peking University (50) and Tsinghua University (56) in the mainland of China. Arts and humanities at Fudan are among the world's top 50, ranked 46[4]. -
This is insane. This is how competitive....
World University/College Rankings
http://www.paked.net/higher_education/rankings/times_rankings.htm
1 1 Harvard University US summary
2 2= Yale University US summary
3 2= University of Cambridge UK summary
4 2= University of Oxford UK summary
5 7= California Institute of Technology US summary
6 5 Imperial College London UK summary
7 9 University College London UK summary
8 7= University of Chicago US summary
9 10 Massachusetts Institute of Technology US summary
10 11 Columbia University US summary
11 14 University of Pennsylvania US summary
12 6 Princeton University US summary
13= 13 Duke University US summary
13= 15 Johns Hopkins University US summary
15 20= Cornell University US summary
16 16 Australian National University Australia summary
17 19 Stanford University US summary
18 38= University of Michigan US
19 17 University of Tokyo Japan summary
20 21 McGill University Canada summary
21 20= Carnegie Mellon University US summary
22 24 King's College London UK summary
23 23 University of Edinburgh UK summary
24 42 ETH Zurich (Swiss Federal Institute of Technology) Switzerland
25 25 Kyoto University Japan
26 18 University of Hong Kong Hong Kong summary
27 32 Brown University US summary
28 26 École Normale Supérieure, PARIS France
29 30 University of Manchester UK
30= 41 University of California, Los Angeles US
30= 33= National University of Singapore Singapore summary
32 37 University of Bristol UK summary
33 29 Northwestern University US
34= 33= University of British Columbia Canada
34= 28 Ecole Polytechnique France
36 22 University of California, Berkeley US summary
37 31 University of Sydney Australia
38 27 University of Melbourne Australia
39 53 Hong Kong University of Science and Technology Hong Kong
40 49 New York University US
41 45 University of Toronto Canada
42 38 Chinese University of Hong Kong Hong Kong
43 33= University of Queensland Australia
44 46 Osaka University Japan
45 44 University of New South Wales Australia
46 47 Boston University US summary
47 43 Monash University Australia
48 93= University of Copenhagen Denmark
49 53= Trinity College Dublin Ireland
50= 117= Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne Switzerland
50= 36 Peking University China
50= 51 Seoul National University South Korea -
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=3385400&thread=3385400
Note the lack of comments
Hold the front page! -
What is the point of asking children to run a marathon in near world class time?
How many people in China can/have run 2:34 every year? 300? 400? Maybe...its not like conditions there - endless construction, air pollution, no parks etc - are conducive to exercise.
This is just an out-of-reach incentive, and they had no intention of doling out the reward. If it were designed to accomplish a realistic goal - get children to exercise - then it would be 3:10. If a young man can run this fast, he is reasonably fit.
The only people who benefited from this were the dozens of "coaches" promising parents they can get their sons over the line in 2:34. -
DiarheaExplosionInMyShorts wrote:
"The exams are so crucial to the future of Chinese children that both students and their families will go to extraordinary lengths to guarantee success. Last year, eight parents and teachers were jailed on state secret charges after using communication devices - including scanners and wireless earpieces - to help pupils cheat."
Yeah that crap is nuts. So glad I don't live there. They view things in black and white. There are so many people there that you have to work your friggin butt off to stand out and live a good life - and if you dont, well, your parents will give you a spanking.
They also view intelligence in linear fashion...
G-d help you if you have are a talented artist or have a learning disability in China. They view things in very concrete fashion. They like pure intellect and the creativity sucks there.
Not that I'm condoning the cheating, but I don't see how being awarded non-academic points (running sub 2:34) on an academic achievement (getting into college) is that much different, from say, having a balanced resume to get into Harvard. I know plenty of people who have lied on college resumes (i.e. saying they were captain of the soccer team when they were actually captain of the D-team) and used it to get into top colleges around the world.
Ok, it is true that the Chinese have chosen two extremes here - great marathon time versus studying for a superhard entrance exam. However, for those who are saying that the concept is so weird, well...it's really not -
running man wrote:
Not that I'm condoning the cheating, but I don't see how being awarded non-academic points (running sub 2:34) on an academic achievement (getting into college) is that much different, from say, having a balanced resume to get into Harvard. I know plenty of people who have lied on college resumes (i.e. saying they were captain of the soccer team when they were actually captain of the D-team) and used it to get into top colleges around the world.
Ok, it is true that the Chinese have chosen two extremes here - great marathon time versus studying for a superhard entrance exam. However, for those who are saying that the concept is so weird, well...it's really not
Yeah, well the way i see it, giving extra credit is pretty similar to the US system as in the USA, college coaches might give extra "points" to the admissions office because you're a 9min high school 2 miler applying to an Ivy.
I would keep athletic pursuits separate from entrance exams. Athletic accomplishments should give you extra "points" in the admissions office, as would many things like artistic talents, being famous, coming from a super-rich family, etc. but keep this separate and don't interweave this with whole a standardized test score. Leave the decision on what's important up to that school's admissions office. But I guess when you have a sh*tload of people as you do in China, you need a single numeric statistic representative of a prospective college student's cumulative net worth (i.e. all special talents/considerations woven into one numeric number on the GaoKao...or whatever the frig it's called....).
While You can't get aid based on athletic ability for applying to an Ivy, you do get extra "points" behind closed doors in the admissions office. I'd bet this would mean that most talented high school athletes enrolling at Ivy league come from relatively middle to upper-middle class families...if you're a great athlete from the lower class, even if you're accepted at an Ivy, you might opt for the D1 aid instead considering you dont want to accumulate 45K+/year in debt. -
running man wrote:
I know plenty of people who have lied on college resumes (i.e. saying they were captain of the soccer team when they were actually captain of the D-team) and used it to get into top colleges around the world.
What's a D-Team? Do you mean team-D like 4th in line as opposed to varsity sports?
my best guess...
Team A - varsity (legit)
Team B - junior varsity (still pretty legit)
Team C - Freshman (still pretty legit...if they have a separate league for frosh)
Team D - (not allowed to put down if this is what I think it is as you're not a real athlete) assuming this is just playing soccer in gym class???? -
It really makes you realize just how lazy we Americans when you look at Asian students. My school has a large Korean/Chinese student population, and they consistently set the curve on tests. While the American students are going out two or three nights a week and getting drunk, the Asian students are at home studying.
They might cheat for all I know; I'm sure some do. But all the cheating I hear about is coming from Americans. I'm surprised people don't realize just how rampant cheating is among privileged white kids. -
I travel, work, communicate, etc daily with China. Fortunately, I only live there for short periods of time but I've been doing it for many years now. Say what you want but 'Off the Grid' is 100% correct.
Cheating is the norm in Asia (and most of the world, actually).
If you don't cheat, you are considered stupid and naive.
