I tried Crossfit 1 day and I haven't been able to lower my arms for a week

Thanks for the fun here. We at Irongarm salute those who know what stupidity x-fit is.

Try the Barry Ross stuff to help your running, stick with the deads and plyo jumps. Works well.

Not sure why people like 'FJ' are bragging about being able to bench press body weight/squat 1.25x bw, etc.

I'm a pure distance runner, 10k specialist.

I weigh 150, can bench 8 rep sets of 195. Squat 10 rep sets of 275. sets of 45-50 regular wide grips are no problem. No cross fit, just good old periodized lifting as Alan mentions.

Crossfit injury forum is proof of the excellent programming.

Crossfit is producing no top athletes.

If they are who?

So many people say they crossfit but, don't follow the daily main page WOD.

And for the poster who mentioned Mark Rippletoe he has been excommunicated from the cult, along with Rob Wolf (paleo diet expert), and Greg Everett( olympic lifting expert).

I think you CF people are missing the point...

Can CF get you fit? Yes.

You can get fit doing taebo or pilates or picking up and throwing rocks around.

The point is, this is a running forum. Crossfit is NOT good for running. It's NOT good for any athlete who is competing in something besides the cross fit games.

You guys don't get it. No runners are doing LSD all day. Only hobby joggers. They aren't competing. THey are similar to CFers. They do a lot of a nonspecific activity.

Anyways, I'd love to have a rational discussion with a CF person, but it's almost always impossible. I talked with a local CF trainer once for fun and despite throwing journal article after journal article just arguing the physiology claims, and not the workouts, he just said I was wrong.

Look who CF aligns itself with. That gives you an idea of how it works. Paleo diet....Pose technique...Cross Fit...think what these all have in common...

To sum up, I have no problem with you guys if you want to do whatever it is you do to workout. But stick to that. Don't claim it's the best at getting you "fit" or whatever u want to call it. Don't go around bragging about how you completed a marathon on running no more than 5mi. Great, I could do it off of 0mi if i wanted to.

Basically, stop celebrating not training optimally at a bunch of stuff.

I don't normally take the side of Alan, but he's right on. If your task was to be mediocre at a bunch of stuff you can still do it better with a periodized program than with crossfit.

Do you think decathletes just randomly do a random hard workout every day? No, it's periodized to bring to optimal fitness during a peak time.

raceresults, I am proof that Crossfit works. My best 5k times just 2 years ago was over 20 mintues. I was running everyday, sometimes twice a day. 2 years later after doing only Crossfit workouts, I ran 18:17 for 5k and didn't even feel winded. This is not to mention the improvements I made in strength and explosiveness. Unless you've tried it, you have no room to talk.

fj wrote:

raceresults, I am proof that Crossfit works. My best 5k times just 2 years ago was over 20 mintues. I was running everyday, sometimes twice a day. 2 years later after doing only Crossfit workouts, I ran 18:17 for 5k and didn't even feel winded. This is not to mention the improvements I made in strength and explosiveness. Unless you've tried it, you have no room to talk.

See, this is what annoys me. Claiming that Crossfit is superior to some specific training.

I've heard CFers claim that Ryan Hall should train like them...

No offense, but 20min for 5k isn't that tough to improve on. My real guess is you were doing a seriously flawed training program.

Will CF improve running times? It can, if you are starting at a low level. I could tell someone to climb trees every day and it would improve his running performance if he started off at a low level.

I agree with what some of the running nuts are saying as far as it being difficult to have a rational, intelligent conversation with alot of CF practitioners. I have been following the main site WODs for about 2.5 years, like I said.

There is feeling of superiority and worship for 'Coach.'

I think the point that many CFers are trying to get across is that many are NOT trying to be elite athletes, but are trying to get a very effective workout in a relatively short amount of time. To curse the practice of exercising the same muscle groups on consecutive days is silly. They are not usually high volume combined with heavy loading for such days. If they happen to be, then most likely you will not see those same exercises for 4 or 5 days.

Like the CF message board, I am sure that many of the posters here probably run most days and compete on the weekends in (x)k's (fill in your # of choice), tri's or whatever. It is easy to pretend to be an 'elite' athlete on a message board. What exactly qualifies you as elite? If all of the runners here claim to be elite, then maybe average is more the appropriate word (elite should set you apart from peers, not untrained individuals).

In defense of the claim that no real athletes use Crossfit, however, I believe there is one regular poster on the message board that is or was a US Olympic Skier and I believe the BJ Penn has referenced Crossfit more than once as being used in his training (MMA for those of you who are not familiar). Of course, like any sport that utilizes running training principles, you must also incorporate sport specific training. That argument is like saying, "Name one elite athlete that only trains using running principles and isn't soley competing in running competitions?" Silly argument.

I think the defensiveness of the some of us CF people was from the original poster who went way overvboard on one workout and then blamed an entire community for his own lack of common sense. He will most likely be fine and will recover in 5-10 days I would imagine (which is a much quicker recovery than I think is recommended for any marathon). If he actually had rhabdomyolysis, go to the ER, it is very serious.

To end the pissing contest, for me anyway, if all I wanted was to be a great runner, I would not make Crossfit my main training method. For most of the athletes on this board, that applies. But to say that the athletes that compete in the only true Crossfit Competition, the annual games, are not exceptional athletes, is just silly. They just aren't exceptional at your sport of choice. And that's ok.

Now Rich, when did I blame an entire community for my lack of common sense? Thanks for your concern though. I do plan on going back but taking it a little easier on the pullups for a while.

I apologize, what I meant was that completely generalizing all of CF because of a bad experience is silly. And I believe it actually wasn't you, specifically forming the generalizations, again... my apologies.

Like I mentioned, I have been doing it for awhile now, and I still scale some of the workouts. Today's was clean and jerks with 135 pounds coupled with sit-ups on a glute-ham developer (which are very difficult and can cause muscle damage if done improperly). I used 115lbs instead. There is no shame in knowing your limits. Could I have used 135? Yea, I can clean and jerk that without much difficulty, but the goal of the workout was time, and I didn't want to choose a weight that would be broken up in smaller sets. I will continue to improve my strength and maybe next time that workout comes around, I WILL use 135.

Realize too, that the crazy pull-ups you may have seen are kipping pullups. There are plenty of times that regular, dead-hang pull-ups are 'prescribed.' The idea behind the kipping pullup is: a.) to get more muscles involved, we aren't just doing them for our lats, and b.) we are trying to increase our power output over a given period of time. You are moving your bodyweight over the same distance as a standard (dead-hang) pull-up, but in a shorter amount of time-->more power output.

You really are dense if you put a workout like CrossFit in the same category as taebo and pilates. I don't care if you don't think CrossFit is good for running or not. I understand you are a runner. But just stop with the infomercial workout shit.

I agree that CrossFit is not the best way to improve your running. 99% of CrossFitters will say the same thing. But workout programs like CrossFit are great ways to improve the running of a non competitive runner, while at the same time getting stronger and better at many different aspects of fitness.

I am not a runner and have no idea what this really means.

There are way too many unqualified people running CrossFit gyms. The guy who "started" CrossFit is a prick that is out of shape and running great people off. That doesn't change the fact that the program has and keeps producing great results.

I don't understand the knock on the paleo diet. I understand it is not ideal for long distance runners. But it is a great starting point or base for 95% of the population.

I very small minority of CrossFitters ever consider doing a full marathon. And if they do, they more than likely do more than CrossFit workouts. Nobody is arguing that.

The word "fit" is the killer here. What is your idea of "fit"? Being able to run a marathon or being able to win a CrossFit type event, or a race like Warrior Dash? I guarantee you that the winner of the CrossFit games would destroy the worlds best marathoner in a race like that.

Agreed, but a decathlete still won't be able to compete in a single event and have a good chance of winning against top athletes that train in that single event. So are they mediocre too?

Step 1: Create a thread about crossfit.

Step 2: Watch all the Crossfit cultists come to defend it.

Step 3: Watch all the level headed athletes and trainers discuss why it's a sham

The cultists won't change their mind no matter what.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/06/AR2008100603032.html

http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_investigative/the_truth_about_crossfit

I've seen more out of shape people start crossfit and get injured because the first workout is like - 100 air squats followed by 50 box jumps followed by 30 pullups, etc. I know they can scale these exercises, but very few people monitor what is the right amount to start with and then people can't move for a week because they are so f'd up.

oh yeah - and the selling point is to be able to wear booty shorts, have ripped abs and arm def.

CrossFit Threads wrote:

Step 1: Create a thread about crossfit.

Step 2: Watch all the Crossfit cultists come to defend it.

Step 3: Watch all the level headed athletes and trainers discuss why it's a sham

The cultists won't change their mind no matter what.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/06/AR2008100603032.htmlhttp://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_investigative/the_truth_about_crossfit

Jesus man that second link pretty much defended or said the exact same things I said, just better written.

From that link:

What ever happened to the Crossfit Buddy Lee jump rope certification for $1,000?

That was a bargain to learn the secrets of jump roping.

Remember the crossfit WOD's with running backwards, the cultist's defended as a valid skill.

fj wrote:

I know a guy that has run under 3 hours and he is my crossfit class. Need more proof?

This has turned out to be a very disappointing thread. I don't know much about Crossfit, and I had hoped to read a knowledgeable discussion of it. If the Crossfit advocates were simply making a strong case that it's a terrific program if you want to feel good, look good, and do a better job at shoveling snow, moving furniture, and carrying luggage, that would be wonderful. I'd be interested. Tell me more. But I don't need to hear about how it gets you into condition to run a 3-hour marathon or an 18-minute 5k. I could run under 2:20 for a marathon just by going out and running miles, even when I probably couldn't do two pull-ups or bench sixty pounds. So telling me that I can run a 3-hour marathon by doing hundreds of pull-ups, push-ups, deadlifts, tire flips, or whatever else you do in that program really isn't very interesting to me. Those of you who are claiming that Crossfit is going to make someone a better runner than he'd be by just going out and running miles obviously don't know what the hell you're talking about.

By the way, I was surprised to see Mark Rippetoe mentioned in this discussion. I've read a number of his books, and have at least one DVD of his. He seems very knowledgeable about the biomechanics of basic lifts (deadlifts, squats, bench presses, and so on) and strengthening programs for anaerobic exercise. I pay attention to what he says about those subjects. But I've been surprised by his apparent ignorance about aerobic metabolism and cardiovascular conditioning. I would never trust his counsel on those subjects.

Come on now. You know I was trollin'

James Fontaine

Crossfit haters, here is the master thread from the weight-lifters' POV:

http://www.irongarmx.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5075&start=18275

Be warned, there are many pictures of naked ladies and Crossfitters doing stupid things. NSFW!

Some "real" athletes (A DivI football player and a woman pentathlete) showed up at their Regional Games recently and crushed all comers even without experience in medicine ball tossing or swinging from rings.