Guys who proposed: did you ask her father for approval?

yeah, eventually people should learn that it isn't always all about yourself in life. Some don't though. There are obviously men and women of all ages who get independence and selfishness confused. Even when it involves you (ie, YOUR marriage), it usually affects others as well, and that shows a lot of character when you can consider that.

i hope I have a future son in law that recognizes how respectful the gesture can be. Rather than having the "it's my wedding, i'll do what i want" attitude.

Bear of Bad News wrote:

Johnny Rotten wrote:

The single most consistent factor in the lives of my high school freshmen who fail my class or who struggle academically: dysfunctional or broken families. It's not race, gender, nor economic status. It's whether their families are intact.

Right, but is this directly related to marriage? A family does not have to be dysfunctional simply because the parents didn't walk down the isle of a church on some random day years ago. A family isn't necessarily functional because the parents did. Are some of your kids from dysfunctional families kids of parents who are married or were married at some point?

I am not saying that families should not stay together or be functional. I'm simply saying that marriage doesn't have to have an impact on two people's ability to stay together.

Care to share the statistics on how many people who live together and don't get married stay together long-term?

As a woman, if a guy asked my Dad first before proposing to me, I think I might say no. Ask her first, then ask his blessing if you and your new fiancee think it's appropriate.

I do not plan on asking my current girlfriend's father. As far as i am concerned, he is an alchoholic who has abused his family including his sons, his wife, and the woman that is his daughter and my future wife emotionally and physically. i do not agree with asking permission because of the reasons everyone else has stated (women think for themselves, are not property), but i also do not agree with showing respect to a man that can treat his family like that. However, she does have a brother that is a legitament class act. while everyone else gives me the cold shoulder, talks about how i'm not good enough, he said to me that he only cares if she's happy. if anything, i would speak to him before i propose.

DontFeedTheTroll wrote: In every case of which I'm aware, the marriage proposal was between the couple and the parents were informed later. Perhaps it's a tradition among your peer group, but it sure isn't among mine.

Glad I'm not the only one thinking this! I'm all for showing respect in every possible way, but I didn't ask. My analysis of the dynamics of my fiancee's family suggested that it wouldn't be expected.

Personally, I don't like what's implied by the tradition, but that's not why I didn't ask. It's simply because, among my and her peer group as well as her family, it simply wasn't expected, in the same way they didn't expect me to wear a top-hat and a monocle at the wedding.

Bear of Bad News wrote:

Right, but is this directly related to marriage? A family does not have to be dysfunctional simply because the parents didn't walk down the isle of a church on some random day years ago. A family isn't necessarily functional because the parents did. Are some of your kids from dysfunctional families kids of parents who are married or were married at some point?

I am not saying that families should not stay together or be functional. I'm simply saying that marriage doesn't have to have an impact on two people's ability to stay together.

Law Of Unintended Consequences wrote:

Care to share the statistics on how many people who live together and don't get married stay together long-term?

No I don't care to gather or share meaningless numbers. You know as well as I do that these numbers could not prove or disprove my point. It is currently customary for people who are planning to stay together to get married, therefore people who get married form a self-selected group of couples who are planning on staying together. At the same time, people who do not get married form a self-selected group of couples who believe themselves to be unlikely to stay together.

DontFeedTheTroll wrote: In every case of which I'm aware, the marriage proposal was between the couple and the parents were informed later. Perhaps it's a tradition among your peer group, but it sure isn't among mine.

hold the phone wrote:

Glad I'm not the only one thinking this! I'm all for showing respect in every possible way, but I didn't ask. My analysis of the dynamics of my fiancee's family suggested that it wouldn't be expected.

Personally, I don't like what's implied by the tradition, but that's not why I didn't ask. It's simply because, among my and her peer group as well as her family, it simply wasn't expected, in the same way they didn't expect me to wear a top-hat and a monocle at the wedding.

You are far from the only person thinking this.

I was having dinner with my wife and her parents last night and mentioned this whole discussion. They just laughed at the whole notion.

My husband took my parents out to eat when I was gone at a track meet and asked for permission. I think it just depends on how you/her were raised. We were both raised understanding you ask for permission. Most of my friends' husbands did the same thing and asked for permission before asking the girl. You should have a good feeling if she will say yes or not. It is just being respectful to ask her parents first.

retard trap wrote:

What is she property? Does he own her? What if he says No? This practice is an arcane throwback to an age we should all move on from. People die everyday in Afghanistan to give them the right not to have to follow horrible practices like this.

This just isn't true. We would find ourselves culturally impoverished if we were to always throw the baby out with the bath water in this way. Cultural practices serve multiple purposes. As society changes, we discard the rationales that are no longer aligned with our beliefs, such as the notion that women were property, which was never exactly the medieval belief, but I digress. We can maintain and further emphasize the aspects of medieval cultural practices that do continue to serve a purpose. It's valuable to recognize that one is not just entering a partnership when one marries, but that one is entering a family. Asking for a blessing does not contradict the notion that the woman still has agency. A father's blessing is independent of a woman's acceptance or refusal.

Of course, it's still just as good an idea for a guy to discuss his plans with his own family first. The only reason he's the one to do the discussing is because men still propose, for the most part. If you really object to a man asking for a blessing before proposing, then shouldn't one also object to men being the only ones who can propose? What about fathers walking the brides down the aisle, "giving" them away?

Clearly, as another poster mentioned, individual circumstances vary. Some fathers really shouldn't be a part of their daughters' lives. Also, cultural practices are only relevant in the appropriate context. If the father would find the request odd, then it won't be perceived as a respectful gesture.

Law Of Unintended Consequences wrote:

Bear of Bad News wrote:

Right, but is this directly related to marriage? A family does not have to be dysfunctional simply because the parents didn't walk down the isle of a church on some random day years ago. A family isn't necessarily functional because the parents did. Are some of your kids from dysfunctional families kids of parents who are married or were married at some point?

I am not saying that families should not stay together or be functional. I'm simply saying that marriage doesn't have to have an impact on two people's ability to stay together.

Care to share the statistics on how many people who live together and don't get married stay together long-term?

I wasn't arguing against what Bear of Bad News said about marriage. I was merely pointing out that dysfunctional families predict dysfunctional kids.

Hey everyone. OP here. First and foremost, thanks for the opinions and advice. I figured I'd come back on here and let you all know how it went.

I came to the conclusion that I should in fact ask. As some mentioned, calling is not ideal, but considering they live 10 hours away, driving there and asking in person wasnt really an option. I have to admit, I was nervous as all hell last night before I called. I was hoping her Dad would answer, I could get right to the point, then be done. Of course that didnt happen. Her Mom answered and saw my name on the caller ID, and assumed something was wrong.

At this point I stated my intentions to her, and she was very happy. We ended up talking for about 5 minutes, but I still wanted to ask her Dad, so I asked to talk to him as well. It amounted to a real awkward 45 second conversation (consdering he already knew I was on the phone with his wife), but at the end he said he was real happy and that of course he'd give his blessing. Right before we hung up he said in a real stern Dad voice, "I REALLY appreciate the call". Whew, huge sigh of relief. I guess calling was the right move.

Thank you, oh wise Letsrun community, without you I mightve talked myself out of calling. So to any other guys out there, if her family is at all traditional, I'd recommend asking.

Now comes the 'real' part - I have to ask my girlfried...although for some reason I was 100 times more nervous to ask her parents than I will be to ask her.

I didn't ask. My wife is very very independent minded and whether or not her parents approved or not didnt matter. Not that we'd ever had cross words or even a disagreement, I just didn't see it as necessary.

btw-I didn't ask if she were bringing a dowery of cash either.

Weve been married for 13 yrs.

Independent minded has nothing to do with it - my wife has a phd, she left home at 17 and never looked back. She was independent, feminist and a wild child. Supported herself far from where she grew up until we married when she was 34. Never the less I asked for her father's blessing - she appreciated it and thought it was appropriate. As someone else pointed out - it has nothing to do with women as property or other ridiculous beliefs.

EZ10Miler wrote:

I didn't ask. My wife is very very independent minded and whether or not her parents approved or not didnt matter. Not that we'd ever had cross words or even a disagreement, I just didn't see it as necessary.

btw-I didn't ask if she were bringing a dowery of cash either.

Weve been married for 13 yrs.

Johnny Rotten wrote:

The single most consistent factor in the lives of my high school freshmen who fail my class or who struggle academically: dysfunctional or broken families. It's not race, gender, nor economic status. It's whether their families are intact.

This may be true of your school, but this is far from true on a widespread scale. By far the "leading factor" in the lives of kids who fail is economic status. I would imagine that wherever you work does not have much diversity in economic status.

The only person with the answer to this is the girlfriend. My first wouldn't have been into it. The 2nd would have FREAKED!! OUT!!!! only cuz she wanted to be estranged from her parents. The 3rd would have found it nicely quaint. The 4th, super-romantic.

"How do you feel about me joining your family someday" is one way to go about it.

guy who is unsure wrote:

Thank you, oh wise Letsrun community, without you I mightve talked myself out of calling. So to any other guys out there, if her family is at all traditional, I'd recommend asking.

Now comes the 'real' part - I have to ask my girlfried...although for some reason I was 100 times more nervous to ask her parents than I will be to ask her.

Glad it worked out for you. I still find it extremely wierd that you asked the parents before you asked her. That's just... I don't get it. I'm cool with the whole "asking for your blessing thing", but I just don't get the bit about the woman not being the first person in your family to know.

However, good luck to you. Marriage can be a beautiful thing if you work at it.