Craig Lutz' coach - WTF

whats so new about this, lots of top runners in highschool do this every year.

what is going on wrote:

This is absurd with the amount of racing he is doing. Add in the fact that he was INJURED FOR MOST OF THE SUMMER and did not really get to build a base...

2009-09-05 15:13.00 Marcus I Invitational - 5K

2009-09-12 15:20.90 Southlake Carroll Invitational - 5K

2009-09-26 15:04.00 Marcus II Invitational - 5K

2009-10-01 16:06.48 Metroplex Challenge Invitational - 5K

2009-10-10 15:35.70 Nike South Invitational - 5K

2009-10-30 14:50.49 District 6-5A Meet - 5K

2009-11-07 14:37.00 Region I Championship - 3 MILE

2009-11-14 14:45.20 Texas X-C State Championship - 5K

2009-11-28 14:34.00 Foot Locker South Regional - 5K

2009-12-05 15:09.20 Nike Cross Nationals - 5K

2009-12-11 15:29.60 Foot Locker Nationals - 5K

The fact that he ran great in all but his last race shows that his coach knows more than all of you do. Didn't have a summer base, probably started building during the season, that means that he wasn't even close to peaking when every else was on their way down. If he only ran one race a week he was doing just fine. By the way, "burn out" is more mental than physical and by they way he finished the season he is too mentally tough to get burned out. I agree with the travel issue, that is probably what got to him at footlocker but you have to travel to run those meets. His coach knows what he is doing and I am sure he has his athletes best interest at heart.

The first few meets got him ready for the rest.

If you think he overraced, imagine yourself as a high school junior and tell me which races you wouldn't have run.

Look at what most high school kids do during their cross country or track seasons. Three meets in a week is not uncommon...

i could only pray that I got beat by a combined 20 seconds all year by all runners I raced against!!

Getting torched week after week, much less workout upon workout is standard for a typical high school athlete.

And the racing will get him ready for the reality check of freshman college

You all seemed focused on how good he is (like his coach is) rather than how good he could be if he was a little smarter with his racing schedule.

If he had just run Foot Locker, and not Nike and run less races during the season, he'd likely have won Foot Locker.

"Likely"? And Verzbicas would have just folded to him...

Some guy who just got banned wrote:

You all seemed focused on how good he is (like his coach is) rather than how good he could be if he was a little smarter with his racing schedule.

If he had just run Foot Locker, and not Nike and run less races during the season, he'd likely have won Foot Locker.

Some guy who just got banned wrote:

If he had just run Foot Locker, and not Nike and run less races during the season, he'd likely have won Foot Locker.

Some people are so utterly stupid.

I like how you KNOW that all those races were at 100% effort for him. I'm sure you spoke with him all the time to know how he was feeling from week to week, and I'm sure he told you he wanted to hold out from those races, but his coach just. wouldn't. listen. He's a high schooler. He wants to compete. As evidenced by the results, it appears his coach actually has a pretty clear idea of what he (or she. I don't know) is doing, and so let him compete from week to week. To that I say bravo.

His racing schedule is not really all that bad. Most high schoolers race week-in and week-out during XC.

WOW! My first respnonse to your idea that he is overracing, without even knowing his situation.

He suffered a stress fracture during the 09 track season. He was not able to build the sufficient base he needed for the whole cross country season. SO he wentinto the first 2-3 meets off only base work. He did not start actually doing workouts until the 3rd or 4th meet.

His plan the whole time was to be at a later peak than everyone, therefore he wouldnt feel burned out at all by the amount of racing he would be doing at the end of the year.

His last 4 races were much like anyones regional, state, nxn qualifier, and nxn final. Except his were at all championship races.

So far the only thing I have heard from most people on this thread is dumb testosterone, chest thumping and little to no real understanding of our sport.

"All the other high school kids do it"

"He's a tough guy, he can handle it"

"He's a kid, let him race"

Are all dumb arguements showing no understanding for the physiological side of the sport.

I know he can do that, and he can race that much, I am saying that it not what is best for him physically. Just becuase you can get by with something and still have success doesn't mean if you did it another way you wouldn't be even more successful.

Lets take a simple example beside the extra workout example I already gave you.

Lets say his 2 options for a friday afternoon during cross country season are either 1) run and win a 5k race in 15:00 or 2) do a workout of 8 x 1k @ 2:55-3:00 with a 400 jog recovery.

From a physical standpoint he'd get more out of the 8 x 1k workout than from the 15:00 5k race.

This pace is at about 97-98% of VO2 max so its a good VO2 Max work. But in the race he gets less than 15 mins worth of work at that pace but in the workout he is getting about 20 minutes worth of work at this pace (after discounting the time it takes in each repeat to get up to 95%+ of MHR).

And to top it all off he'd recover faster from the workout than he would the race. Racing yourself into shape can happen but is not the most efficient way to do it.

There is a very good reason why the top runners in the world only race 8-10 times a year. It is because their time is better spent training rather than racing. These guys and gals make alot of money when they race so if they thought it was equally as good to race alot, I'm sure they would be doing it. But they don't and that should tell you something.

Another thing - 5k is a pretty poor distance to do as a workout. It's not really long enough for someone of Lutz caliber to do as a LT tempo run and he's doing it too fast anyways for it to be true LT work. So in fact even if he is doing most of the races sub-par he's wasting a workout as there are plenty of better things he could be doing.

Back to the whole Bill Rodgers arguement for a minute. You need to remember that Bill wasn't racing 5k's, most of these weekends he was running between 10k and half marathons and by doing these at 90% effort he was doing absolutely perfect LT Tempo runs or AT tempo runs, stuff he'd be doing as a workout if he wasn't in a race.

A 5k is just too short for this.

So all you old high school football coach types, stop drinking your testostarone shakes and thumping your chests and instead look at this logically and understand the science behind it and see that just because alot of high schools people do something, doesn't mean its the most effective way to do it.

Lutz is a great runner who had a great season. By better using his time and racing less, he could have had an even better season. That isn't hard to understand or figure out.

Wow, you're pretty angry about this.

Nobody is saying it is optimal. It just isn't that unusual. The system is mostly at fault, I think, not his coach.

what is going on wrote:

This is absurd with the amount of racing he is doing. Add in the fact that he was INJURED FOR MOST OF THE SUMMER and did not really get to build a base...

2009-09-05 15:13.00 Marcus I Invitational - 5K

2009-09-12 15:20.90 Southlake Carroll Invitational - 5K

2009-09-26 15:04.00 Marcus II Invitational - 5K

2009-10-01 16:06.48 Metroplex Challenge Invitational - 5K

2009-10-10 15:35.70 Nike South Invitational - 5K

2009-10-30 14:50.49 District 6-5A Meet - 5K

2009-11-07 14:37.00 Region I Championship - 3 MILE

2009-11-14 14:45.20 Texas X-C State Championship - 5K

2009-11-28 14:34.00 Foot Locker South Regional - 5K

2009-12-05 15:09.20 Nike Cross Nationals - 5K

2009-12-11 15:29.60 Foot Locker Nationals - 5K

Supposed lack of base is irrelevant, he won all the races except one, so he was fit and ready to race. If I was as good as he is I would have wanted to win TWO national meets also. Good for him.

I think that in Texas racing into December is more normal because it is SOOO damn hot in August and Sept that the season more naturally extends into December for the great runners (I am from MI and it is hard to train very well past November 1st -- cold, snowy and windy).

WE raced 14 races a season and the season ended the first Sat in Nov. (state Meet). For a runner this good, if you ran 10 races up to Nov 5th and then three races over the next three weeks ... I don't think that is overracing.

Usually december of senior year is pretty lax and you would only need to miss school for travel on Thur or Friday (I realize he is a junior). But the only thing you guys are criticizing Lutz for is running one more race (NXN) than most every other top runner.

Looks like it turned out pretty well for him ... I doubt he is whining about too many races.

Holy crap, I'm glad Letsrun wasn't around when I was in high school. I liked racing. I suspect most runners do. As an old has-been, I don't look back on my high school career and remember the great workouts; I remember the races, both good and bad. This kid had a tough schedule this year, but I don't see how anyone can call it a failure, either in his racing or his coach's training.

I guess Furry Finnish Friend is probably Bekele, since he's so in tune with optimal training that he's setting world records and winning major races right and left. I mean, he's obviously figured out "the secret" that eludes us morons.

There were three guys ahead of him.

Not to mention that he ran an 8k road race (and won it) the weekend in between district and regionals, making that way more than 4 straight weeks.

cooler than freddy jackson wrote:

This kid had a tough schedule this year, but I don't see how anyone can call it a failure, either in his racing or his coach's training.

No one called it a failure, actually I said it was very successful, just not as successful as it could have been.

I just want people to open their eyes and realize that just because its what everyone does doesn't mean it should be done that way.

Furry Finnish Friend wrote:

I just want people to open their eyes and realize that just because its what everyone does doesn't mean it should be done that way.

If only I'd known this before.