You know its time to quit when

dang it wrote:

"up to 120 miles a week for consecutive years,including doubles"

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Man I find that hard to believe? How fast did or do you expect to be?? That's alot of effort.

Going in, I never expected to be world-class, or even a Trials qualifier. But I thought that hitting 15:00 for the 5K blue-collar style was certainly possible. Now I find myself stagnated horribly at a good 20-30 sec. above the 16 minute threshold. For me, I just want to win the local road races.

hmmm

2:10

4:36

10:00

16:20

10k?

half?

marathon?

all of those times line up pretty well, maybe you need to move up in distance. especially if you enjoy 120 mile weeks.

I would second everyone saying to drop milage too if you like racing 5k.

I'd try putting in more quality and running 75-85 this summer and see what kind of 5k times you can run.

Thanks for the replies,

but I must say that over the years, my best times have come when running high mileage. I tried the whole 75-80 miles a week thing,with greater emphasis on quality, but interestingly that made me lose my aerobic power and I found myself unable to sustain fast paces over 800 meters and up.

race longer distances than 5K-- you ain't gonna get any faster

Why don't you describe one of these 120 mile weeks, day by day, and we'll see if we can spot something that doesn't look right.

I quit when I couldn't beat my old high school PR's any longer...

The thing about running is that you know exactly how badly you suck when you get old...

unsure wrote:

Jaegabombs wrote:

"Just because you don't have speed doesnt mean that high mileage is the answer."

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2:10/4:36 is certainly not world class, but to suggest that it equals "not having speed" is a bit of a stretch!! A 4:36 mile is quite good considering that fewer than 2% of runners who compete in road races can go that fast.

What about a 15:00 5k? Is that fast? If you think so what about the fact that it's not world class either?

Nope, 2:10/4:36 can be run by any number of High School freshman and sophomores every year.

15:00 will win most local races, but theres also hundreds of college age guys that will break 15:00 this year.

Its all relative.

4runner wrote:

I quit when I couldn't beat my old high school PR's any longer...

The thing about running is that you know exactly how badly you suck when you get old...

that is unwise. Sure you're not gonna be as good as you once were, but it other areas you're even better! Believe me, life does not peak in high school.

Precisely, it's all relative. I've understood that for a long time. There's plenty of guys at the collge level who could step down and dominate the local road circuit, but for whatever reason, that doesn't interest them. That applies even to the elite high school kids.

I don't mind being the big fish in small pond. The problem is that right now I'm still a medium-sized fish in an already small pond.

If you're in a big city or close to one, you just need to pick your races better.

Look for first year races. Look for annual events where the previous year had a slow winning time. Don't ever run money races. Look for races with say, a 5K and 10K, and pick the easier race. Look for days where there is more than one race in the same town that day, and do the smaller one.

If you only want to chase hardware, you can do it. And no one on LetsRun will think any less of you...

Still waiting, come on man I'm curious, I've never met a guy who has run over 100 miles a week without breaking 16 minutes for 5k. Let's see how you train.

Jaegabombs wrote:

Nope, 2:10/4:36 can be run by any number of High School freshman and sophomores every year.

15:00 will win most local races, but theres also hundreds of college age guys that will break 15:00 this year.

Its all relative.

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Yea, it's all "relative" to what other runners can do. But let's be more decriptive. It does not follow; that because hundreds of college guys can break 15:00, 15:00 5k speed is NOT fast. Relative to the number of people who run in races 15:00 is fast.

Would it make any sense to say that a person with a networth of a $1 billion is not rich because there are a few in the world who have 20 billion?

Sample training week:

Mon AM 10 miles easy (7:30-8:00)

PM 6 miles up-tempo

Tue AM 8 miles easy (7:30-8:00)

PM 4 x 1 mile w/ 90 sec. recovery ( 5:20-5:30 )

Wed AM 4 miles easy (7:30-8:00)

PM 10 miles easy ( 7:30-8:00)

Thu AM 8 miles easy (7:30-8:00)

PM 45 min. tempo run ( 5:50-6:10 )

Fri Easy recovery - 8 miles

Sat AM 18 miles ( 7:30-8:00) last 4 miles at 6:40)

Sun AM 12 miles easy (7:30-8:00)

PM 20 x 200 w/ 200 jog @ 32-33

unsure wrote:

Jaegabombs wrote:

Nope, 2:10/4:36 can be run by any number of High School freshman and sophomores every year.

15:00 will win most local races, but theres also hundreds of college age guys that will break 15:00 this year.

Its all relative.

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Yea, it's all "relative" to what other runners can do. But let's be more decriptive. It does not follow; that because hundreds of college guys can break 15:00, 15:00 5k speed is NOT fast. Relative to the number of people who run in races 15:00 is fast.

Would it make any sense to say that a person with a networth of a $1 billion is not rich because there are a few in the world who have 20 billion?

The 15:00 5K runner to compare would be more like a guy with a net worth of 1-2 Million. He's done really well for himself, and should be proud of what he's done, but he also is pretty undistinguishable from a large group of other managers, CEO's and Bankers just like him.

Comparing the 15:00 guy to the average road race participant who runs 21:00 would be like comparing our friend who makes 1 Million a year to the rest of the people who make $50000-$60000 working for him. In that context yes, he is very rich. But then our friend goes out at night and meets some guys who have 10 Million, and another guy who just retired on 20 million and then he reads Fortune and finds out that around 1000 people have 1 Billion dollars or more in wealth and he realizes theres a much larger ocean out there.

This isn't to be condescending at all, but its just to point out that 15:00 will win a lot of local races but will also get broken by a lot of 19 and 20 year olds who are just another guy on even mid major type D1 schools.

sorry for the threadjack OP, I still stand by my comment that you should drop down even if its only into the 90's. I think youll see a world of difference.

dang it wrote:

Sample training schedule...

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That's some serious training! When I was in 16 flat shape, I was doing 50-60 with hardly any speed work, mostly 8-10 runs at 7:30 7:15.

I tend to agree with the reduce milage and or train at a slower pace?

Jaegabombs wrote:

....This isn't to be condescending at all, but its just to point out that 15:00 will win a lot of local races but will also get broken by a lot of 19 and 20 year olds who are just another guy on even mid major type D1 schools.

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Yea, but you seem to be unwilling to acknowledge that 15:00 is "fast". We know it's not as good as 13:00. But 15:00 will put you at about the 99.997 percentile of all runners who run in road races. All I'm saying is that it's an exaggeration to say that it's not fast. It's not world class fast, but it's fast. Just because hundreds of DI runners can do it, does not mean it's not fast. They are DI because...they are fast. There are millions of runners who try to run fast. It's reasonable, I guess, to say that 24:00 is not fast because that's about what the average male runner can do?

Back to the wealth comparision, 15:00 is more comparable to someone worth $30 million (US). Sure there are persons with billions, but it's makes no sense to say that 15:00 is not fast just as it would make no sense to say $30 million is not enough to be rich.

In another post, someone wrote that Wariner lacks speed because his 200 best is only 20.3!

If you're in the top 10th of a percent in anything, you have a lot of whatever being measured.