Does any one know anything about the training he had his athletes do? I heard it was high milage and Very intense.
Does any one know anything about the training he had his athletes do? I heard it was high milage and Very intense.
My understanding is that he was a crash and burn kind of coach. He beat the shit out of his runners and the most talented ran great for a very limited period of time (Komen '96-'98).
easy trackhead. If you want to run 7min20 for 3000m then you have to do some pretty truck workouts no matter what. Knowing Komen, he could still kick serious ass, except he got married, found out what life was outside running and hes loaded up with cash - and also knowing where he came from, I dont blame him at all.
With regard to Kims workouts, yes they were very hard. But its not that much different to what Ricky does now anyway.
The fabled session, went something like - "right, I want you guys to run 1 mile as hard as you can" so thinking it was a one-out time trial the guys went hard and ran 3min54-55 or something. I think about 2 or 3 white dudes ran PRs at the back of the "trial" in 3min59-4min02. Anyway, after about 5 minutes, Kim pipes up "right, now we are doing 6 400's in 58 with 2 minutes rest" and if you knew Kim, you were DOING them.
Very intense track sessions, short rest. But the recovery runs were just that. You run how you feel. The kenyans dont give a toss how fast they are running at the best of times, they just go with the flow and get it done. Something the western world could learn.
bump
someone has to have some more information on this guy
Very similar to a lot of the stuff Frank Horwill advocates. Very intense stuff.
What does Frank Horwill advocate? please, id like to know
Joseph Tengelei.......4 x 600 @ 1:15 - 1:19 w/about 5 minutes rest.
This was 4 days before the qualifying rounds of the World Champs outdoor.
RESULTS: 1:48+ first round.....fails to advance. Hmmmmmm!
I read of workout that he had is runners do, and at the time I felt they crossed the line as far as intensity. From what I can rember it was a latter of mile 1200 1000 8 4 2 and the times where 3:47 pace 3:55 pace 3:50 pace 3:45 pace and then the 4 was around 52sec and the 2 was around 22.5Sec.
Kenny did this workout with Koman times might be little slow but I know they are very close. Keep in mind that both of these guys ran there best times within two years of working with hem. And they never came close to that level again. Komen Kenndy and a former guy for Ak all trained with hem they ran fast. But they never ran as fast again. Hile from what I have seen never gets this close to the max, and has progressed slower but kept getting better.
I am sure he was a very good guy, and was coaching the best he know how. But like a lot of coach's he seem's to have not realized that the flame that burns bright, burns short.
Good summary, especially the last sentence: "But like a lot of coach's he seems to have not realized that the flame that burns bright, burns short."
Tinman
Sol, you are rubbishing the coaching of the man who coached the WR holder for 3000m indoors as well as outdoors! 7:20/7:24i ....... do you not know just what an achievement this was?? Komen ran for the money as much, if not more than for the medals, Kim McDonald helped him not only earn his wage but also wrote him into the history books with numerous WR on the track. Perhaps Kenyan athletes often accept the fact that their career may be short, but offset this against the success (both financial and medal) on offer and then still push on to great things. Its not the way that i would do it, but i do believe that this is a risk that many top athletes take in order to run the kind of times/performances that will win you championship medals or break records nowadays. In his lifetime i imagine that Kim 'forgot' more about coaching & managing international athletes than a huge majority of us on this board will ever know! Have HG & HelG been able to touch Komen's 3k records or his 2mile record? No!! What does this tell you?
SolRichards wrote:
I read of workout that he had is runners do, and at the time I felt they crossed the line as far as intensity. From what I can rember it was a latter of mile 1200 1000 8 4 2 and the times where 3:47 pace 3:55 pace 3:50 pace 3:45 pace and then the 4 was around 52sec and the 2 was around 22.5Sec.
Where did you 'read' this?
and then you say.......
"Kenny did this workout with Koman times might be little slow but I know they are very close"
Are you talking about Bob Kennedy? Are you saying that he ran a 3.47 mile at the start of a session? You then say that "the times might be a little slow" !!!! I think that you should rethink what you are saying mate. I cant imagine BK handling the first time in a race, let alone in a T/T......stop waffling and delving into your memory for ancient misquotes please, you are clouding the topic with the haze coming from your BS!
Use spellcheck or buy a dictionary.
Dave
a.) I think he meant 3:57 -- and I know Kennedy would always be few seconds behind Komen in workouts.
b.) Yes, Komen ran incredible times, but his time at the top was very very limited. Who has had the better career: Gebrselassie or Komen?
Jah, Kim was very influential to many coach's philosophies and he opened up his training camp in Australia to outside groups as mine. People must to know that Komen began to run very much for money and was not as wise for his training and choose of races.
GEB v KOMEN? The two are from totally different situations. Geb has always been contracted to the Ethiopian national team, Komen did not have this backup. He went out to earn his own cash. Given these differences, the careers are always going to be very difficult to compare, especially for longevity. It doesn't really matter does it.
Komen isn't the only Kenyan athlete to have only lasted for 3-4years after chasing records for 2-3 of them, and this isnt really worth debating in this thread.
You should also remember that McDonald also coached Kiptanui, Ngney, O'Sullivan and many more along the way.....Kiptanui was hardly a flash in the pan was he? Ngeny ran to the very limits of his racing potential under Kim, and Sonia is still racking up great performances even now. Record chasing and time trialling may burn athletes out, but the kind of session that is mentioned above will not. You don't even know what the recoveries were, so how can you say that this session was too much for the best athletes in the world??
Anyway, if you want to know a bit more about the training that Kim McDonald used to have his athletes doing, why not get onto the
site and ask somebody? I'm sure that there would be somebody to give you a brief outline to wet your appetite.
Dave
I think KM was a good coach. But he also run his runner to hard!.
The pace on the mile was 3:57 and that was from a running mag I read. I do not know if that was a true time, but from what I have heard of the training that koman did it was not out of the book.
I think that when one starts to work with runners, they need to have what is best for the runners in mind. Also sometimes it is the job of the coach to slow there runners down. If a guy runs his best races within one or two years of working with a coach, that is a sine that they did not run up to there limit. I have allways wanted to think that one starts to coach to help runners see there dreams live.
One must rember that people can run fast, and also run long. If one only runs fast, had ends up tried broken down and burntout. It is sad, since it would show that they had put faith on somone who led them down the wrong road. The fact of the matter regarding KM. Is that he trained some of the best runners who have lived. And these guys ran fast, but they never ran long. At the age of 25 Koman was done, at that point a 5k guy should be hitting there stride. I don\\\\\\\'t think, and we will never know the what KM wanted from his runners. But the fact of the matter is this. He worked with alot of very good runners, who had all been trained and refined with other coaches. They all ran fast times soon after working with hem, and then they never hit that level again. This tends to not be the case when runners are trained by coaches who\\\\\\\'s main drive is to see them realize there dreams.
Keep in mind that long term planning and investing for the future are not strong character traits in many Kenyans (Of course there are exceptions like Tergat and Tanui).
You have to accept that the athlete will only have the motivation for a short career so training needs to be geared accordingly.
If you have seen how hard these guys train and the impact of a some dollars on their standard of living you will understand this.
When i saw daniel in Eldoret last year he was the man - strutting round town in his armani suit, gold jewelry and nice car. Why would he still want to lash out lung burning reps on the track ?
So to answer the original question about Kim's training. It would appear to be spot on for the athletes and circumstances he was faced with.
Kim did use some of Frank Horwill's ideas but you should also remember that he was coached by Alan Storey and used Alan as a sounding board for many runners he coached including Peter Elliott and Sonia O'Sullivan - which is why Alan took over the reins with Sonia.
However he found that the Kenyian athletes could do, and would benefit from, more work than their European counterparts.
I suspect that Ricky Simms will gradually take athletes away from the Kim programme towards something more conventional.
Well said, phew!