Anybody else find "easy runs" more difficult than the name suggests?

always sunny wrote:

Wait... I thought lactic acid was produced from the glycolytic pathway, and then converted to lactate by losing a H+ and forming a salt. ?? So you make lactic acid, but lactate accumulates.

It's sodium lactate which is produced, which is an acid salt, and cannot dissociate H+

Lactic acid is not produced, and lactate production itself accepts a H+

shut up wrote:

6:40 is easy for me, but not impossible. I think people who say that are full of sh*t. I usually run faster, but it's not like it's gonna kill me to run 6:40 pace. My times are 24:31 8k xc and 30:39 as a freshman in college.

So you must be like a senior now?

As I understand it, the benefit of easy runs is directly related to your racing goals, your health, and your time commitment. I am not an expert on training, nor am I even much of a runner, but this is my understanding (which is likely partially or entirely incorrect): To excel at running, you should run lots of miles and run some of them relatively hard and fast. Add on top of that a pair of physiological assumptions: (1)people need some amount of time to recover from running hard/fast, (2) people are most likely to get hurt when running hard/fast and fatigued (this is true in other sports, but I may be wrong for running). Given those assumptions, then long easy runs should be beneficial to relatively large (but specific) categories of runners. Namely those who run regularly enough that runs frequently occur without full recovery, yet are aiming for pace goals that require substantial training. Stated differently, if everyone recovered instantly, then all runs should be hard/fast. Given that isn’t the case, long easy runs allow for aerobic benefit while still allowing for recovery and without substantially increasing injury risk. On the other hand, runners who are not running substantial mileage either because they are not aiming for superlative times OR because they simply don’t have the time to train, might reasonably get away with always running a relatively hard/fast run. Wouldn’t that allow for the chronic 6:30 pacer to be as individually correct the person who mixes easy runs with fast/hard runs?

Kenyans typically run in the 9s on their easy days. For guys who can hold sub 5s for a LONG time, that's gotta feel like bouncing up and down, but... they can hold sub 5s for a LONG time.

quiet runner wrote:

Kenyans typically run in the 9s on their easy days. For guys who can hold sub 5s for a LONG time, that's gotta feel like bouncing up and down, but... they can hold sub 5s for a LONG time.

I don't know any kenyans but I have been to races and have seen them warm up at no faster than 8-8:30 pace. Of course I blew by them warming up at 6:30 pace and they ran a minute a mile faster than me during the race.

It has been proven that you are beyond clueless. I remember reading Geb saying he ran 10 minute pace on easy days. I guess Geb is not African and sucks?

I agree. When I was running as a pro (female, 2:35 marathon ages ago), I would sometimes run as slowly as 8:00 or 8:30 pace on easy runs, because I was so wrecked from either a race or a hard training run. The watch pretty much comes off for me on 'easy days' in terms of just running for time and forgetting about pace. Easy runs are for recovery, not ego boost, and they actually do have a purpose. If you run at 85% on your easy days, you can't run at 100% on your hard days, so you train your body to run at less than your best - make sense?

Well written!

@ alex s- sorry for my idiotic comment of "warming down" I have only been in the game for 30 years and that is the way we use to speak. I guess "cooling down" would be more appropiate but I found it amusing that on theGrotepoll.com he used the exact same language. Bugger off minion

Mr Mountain wrote:

[quote]quiet runner wrote:

Kenyans typically run in the 9s on their easy days. For guys who can hold sub 5s for a LONG time, that's gotta feel like bouncing up and down, but... they can hold sub 5s for a LONG time.

'I don't know any kenyans but I have been to races and have seen them warm up at no faster than 8-8:30 pace'

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Agree, I did warm ups and down with Ethiopians and it was the slowest jog you have ever seen. They would walk some of the recovery too! Part of it was definitely not having anything to prove

I never went on one of their recovery or easy runs, but from what the coach told me they would start of slow then pick it up a bit depending on how they feel.

They did more hard sessions than some UK elite runners though - they were doing intevals, tempo or some faster paced runs nearly every day week. So they really need the recoveries to be slower than a runner just doing 2 or 3 tough sessions a week

When I was younger I did too may recovery runs fast. A steady standard training run is different though and you don't need to plod along and should pick the pace up

Some Kenyan who's name I forget said 'don't waste good running' - ie if you are feeling good go for it

The Kenyans run 9 min pace if they feel they need to. They have a saying "let the pace come to you". If it does, then they go... fast! If it doesn't, no worries. If you've witnessed a Kenyan progression run then you'll know that these guys fly when they get rolling. Doing the last 2 miles at sub 4:30 pace of a 10 miler is not uncommon. The point is they did the first two miles in about 18 minutes. On another day that same 10 mile run might end with 2 miles at 6 minute pace.

wellnow thanks for posting this.

key points, in simple terms, for those who don't feel like wading through an AJP article:

1) glucose is broken down to pyruvate via glycolysis. pyruvate can either go through aerobic pathways, ending up as just CO2 and water, 'making' lots of energy, or pyruvate can be converted to lactate by an enzyme called lactate dehydrogenase.

2) this conversion to lactate actually soaks up a proton, which is 'acid.'

3) the reason for the coincidence of acid and lactate (NOT lactic acid) in your blood is that the transporter that spits lactate out of your muscle also transports a proton into your blood.

4) lactate, as the NYT article noted, is an excellent fuel, and the heart can get up to 80% of its fuel requirements from lactate during heavy exercise

5) the NYT article was wrong not to distinguish between lactic acid and lactate. i can't remember exactly what the pKa of lactic acid is, but the bottom line is that at the pH (relative acidity/alkalinity) of your body, lactic acid cannot even exist. LACTIC ACID IS ESSENTIALLY BIOCHEMICALLY IMPOSSIBLE UNDER HUMAN PHYSIOLOGIC CONDITIONS.

6) i think its unresolved whether the delayed onset muscle soreness you get 1-several days later is a result of actual muscle structural damage, or more from an inflammatory response, or both. several studies showing muscle damage have used a nonphysiological electrical stimulus.

exactly how i feel wrote:

it has been proven that the FASTER one runs the more AEROBIC benefit they receive. Thus, it makes sense to run your EASY days as FAST as you possibly can, without going ANAEROBIC that is, of course.

Are you being serious? They faster you run the more aerobic benefit you get?...NO..The faster you run the anaerobic benefit you get, You are one of the reason's America could NEVER touch Africa...You sad little runner.

exactly how i feel wrote:

Second, it has been proven that the FASTER one runs the more AEROBIC benefit they receive. .

Incorrect