Anybody else find "easy runs" more difficult than the name suggests?

` wrote:

exactly how i feel wrote:

Anything slower than [7 minute] pace there is no real [...] aerobic benefit.

Incorrect.

Not necessarily, it depends on your fitness. If 7min. pace is below 55% of your VO2 max or max HR, then yes, it is of no aerobic benefit. I'd say this is rare at 7min. pace.

It has nothing to do with lactic acid. The muscles are sore and tight because the race damaged some of the muscle fibers. The muscle tightness is telling you to go easy so you don't do more damage until they have time to heal. The more easy running or cross training you can do to keep the blood flowing through the muscles will help them heal faster.

The reason it may initially be harder to run at a slower pace is that you are using the muscles in a little different way and it takes more time to run the same distance. If you are training optimally, you should be hitting all the paces often during the week even the slower ones. By being able to do more volume, your body will learn to recover faster from all of your runs.

6:40 is easy for me, but not impossible. I think people who say that are full of sh*t. I usually run faster, but it's not like it's gonna kill me to run 6:40 pace. My times are 24:31 8k xc and 30:39 as a freshman in college.

ripvanracer wrote:

It has nothing to do with lactic acid. The muscles are sore and tight because the race damaged some of the muscle fibers. The muscle tightness is telling you to go easy so you don't do more damage until they have time to heal. The more easy running or cross training you can do to keep the blood flowing through the muscles will help them heal faster.

The reason it may initially be harder to run at a slower pace is that you are using the muscles in a little different way and it takes more time to run the same distance. If you are training optimally, you should be hitting all the paces often during the week even the slower ones. By being able to do more volume, your body will learn to recover faster from all of your runs.

But lactic acid is a waste product, and it has to be removed by your lymbic system and through the bloodstream. That's not going to happen if you don't get the blood flowing. How is this wrong?

FWIW i have run 1406 and 2346 and my recovery paces usually are between 7:20 and 8:40, usually leaning towards the latter. Run on soft surfaces, run slow, and don't worry about how you compare to the hobby joggers who could keep up with you on your easy day!

generic user name wrote:

FWIW i have run 1406 and 2346 and my recovery paces usually are between 7:20 and 8:40, usually leaning towards the latter. Run on soft surfaces, run slow, and don't worry about how you compare to the hobby joggers who could keep up with you on your easy day!

Completely agreed. I think people often can't differentiate between "easy" and "recovery".

"Easy" pace is about 65-80% of your max HR. These days do benefit the aerobic system better than recovery days, in which your running <65% of your max HR and pace is usually of no concern. BUT you do still benefit aerobically from recovery days AND it is important to RUN on these days and not just take them completely off. Taking these days completely off doesn't flush out the lactic acid (that terminology of flushing is wrong but I'm to lazy to correct it) as well as running which promotes blood flow to sore muscles.

I also highly recommend taking two days after a race as recovery and one day after a workout as recovery. The rest of the runs can be easy-medium paced runs. These recovery runs will also allow you to develop not only more muscle coordination but also a greater discipline over your running.

To the young gentlemen who claimed that Africans don't run at 8 minute pace, you might want to train or even talk to them once in awhile before making broad assumptions. Kenyans especially are known for nearly walking on "recovery" days, but flying (probably close to their marathon pace) on their "easy" days.

You 6 minute hobbyjoggers are hilarious. You probably race at a 5:55 pace

In response to the OP, the "easy" runs are meant to be easy on your cardiovascular system which will allow your legs to recover. If you are training and racing correctly, your legs should feel "easy" on race day.

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+1

shut up wrote:But lactic acid is a waste product, and it has to be removed by your lymbic system and through the bloodstream. That's not going to happen if you don't get the blood flowing. How is this wrong?

It's wrong in every way. Just in case you're not trolling, read this:

exactly how i feel wrote:One, running at such a slow pace literally hurts my legs and physically rips apart my body. My legs ache, I get cramps, my head aches when my pace slows to around the 6:30 mark, 7 minutes after the day of a race or one of the really tough workouts I do.

The fact that your head aches is one of many signs in your post that suggests this is a mental rather than physical issue. I'm seriously not trying to be an asshole when I say that you might benefit from some counseling.

"shut up" has it right:

shut up wrote:

You waited too long to run. You should do a good cooldown and then run the day after in order to get your legs moving and drain the lactic acid from your legs. That's why you felt bad, because you sat around and didn't let your legs circulate the junk out of your system, and when you finally ran, you were still filled with lactic acid. That's why it's good to do an easy run the day immediately after the race.

generic user name wrote:

FWIW i have run 1406 and 2346 and my recovery paces usually are between 7:20 and 8:40, usually leaning towards the latter. Run on soft surfaces, run slow, and don't worry about how you compare to the hobby joggers who could keep up with you on your easy day!

Agreed. I used to be in contact with a group of runners who liked to hammer easy/recovery days, boasting about holding 6:00-6:20's for a 7-10 mile run. I would run fairly consistently at 7:00-20 on longer runs and maybe drop into the 6:30's on 5-7 milers. None of that group have run faster than my 5k pr.

In my opinion, recovery/easy days should be as slow as the runner is comfortable with. If you feel uncomfortable running slower than 8 min/mile then don't do it. But don't feel like you have to run low 6's or sub 6 on easy days to get better. Save that kind of work for long tempo runs or something.

Firstly, you are still recovering from your hard runs. Especially after a race

Next, when you are pushing the pace on hard runs you are concentrating more on the effort (and associated pain!) of maintaining a fast pace. Without this on a slow run you notice all the niggles and stiffness that may go unnoticed when pushing it

On running slow, there have been studies on horses done on optimum pace. The study is to find the running pace at which the horse uses the least energy for a certain distance. You would expect it to be the slowest running pace, but it they found the least energy was used at a steady pace. The optimum pace was moderate and toward the slower end of the pace range. But it was still considerably faster than the horse’s slowest running pace.

However, in the slowest jog you may actually use some muscles you are not using at a faster pace which has to be a good thing. Get off the roads as well to dissipate the pounding effect

Easy runs, hell even normal steady runs, aren't really going to provide much of a stimulus for aerobic development in good runners.

For you guys thinking that pushing it from 7min to 6:30 is going to give some wonderful training adaptation, it's not. Yes, during a base period or early in your career when aerobic adaptations are low, it might.

But later in your career/season, it's more about accumulated time to keep long term adaptations going, recovery, and even pre-fatiguing the legs before workouts.

Denominator wrote:

"shut up" has it right:

shut up wrote:

You waited too long to run. You should do a good cooldown and then run the day after in order to get your legs moving and drain the lactic acid from your legs. That's why you felt bad, because you sat around and didn't let your legs circulate the junk out of your system, and when you finally ran, you were still filled with lactic acid. That's why it's good to do an easy run the day immediately after the race.

ugh. exercise physiology fail x2. why do people insist on saying things on this site that are so utterly incorrect?

Blurd wrote:

10 miles @ 7:00 pace always feels harder to me than 10 miles @ 6:20 pace. Probably the state of mind I'm in though. If I'm running 7:00 pace it usually means I THINK I need to run that pace. If I'm running 6:00-6:30 pace it's because I'm feeling normal/good.

Think about the time under tension here. 10 miles at 7 min and 6:20 pace do not take the same time. Yeah its only a 7 minute difference but in the end it adds up.

If you want to go easy maybe you should cut a mile off and see how differently you feel when you run 7 minute pace for 9 miles rather than 10.

Come on Mr. Closelerly everyone knows letsrunners are overly concerned with the specific number of miles they run a week.

Everyone get over it, switch to kilometers like the Kenyans. Then you'll really feel like a man when you achieve a high number like 160 km per week.

I've always felt like guys who push the easy days all the time often feel like they have something to prove. That is, they lack confidence in their own abilities, so they have to show themselves and everyone else that they're tough.

However, if you also race well consistently, the above probably doesn't apply to you.

ripvanracer wrote:

It has nothing to do with lactic acid. The muscles are sore and tight because the race damaged some of the muscle fibers. The muscle tightness is telling you to go easy so you don't do more damage until they have time to heal. The more easy running or cross training you can do to keep the blood flowing through the muscles will help them heal faster.

The reason it may initially be harder to run at a slower pace is that you are using the muscles in a little different way and it takes more time to run the same distance. If you are training optimally, you should be hitting all the paces often during the week even the slower ones. By being able to do more volume, your body will learn to recover faster from all of your runs.

Exactly.

We don't even produce 'lactic acid' but lactate, which is the chemical conversion of stored carbohydrate, and does not even function as an acid.

Run easy till recoevered, however long it takes.

Wait... I thought lactic acid was produced from the glycolytic pathway, and then converted to lactate by losing a H+ and forming a salt. ?? So you make lactic acid, but lactate accumulates.