What's up with Hall? He obviously has the tools to handle a pace like today and throw in a late surge but he didn't. I would say that NY, Boston, and Beijing were all big disappointments for him. Does anyone else here agree? What do you think that he will do to break out of it? Should he try some 5/10Ks on the track in the spring?
If he would join AlSal and that group, he would be able to handle it. Maybe he will see the light and join the rest of that group and then he'll be able to handle what he is capable of.
I'd say 3rd at Boston, 4th at NY, 10th in Olympics are pretty darn impressive.
I honestly don't know what his racing schedule is like but it seems that he races very little. Maybe he needs more races.
well.... wrote:
I'd say 3rd at Boston, 4th at NY, 10th in Olympics are pretty darn impressive.
but are they as impressive as 2:06:17, 59:43 solo and his stunning 2:09flat at the olympic trials with a 1:02 1/2 half? No, not even close. His recent performances in NY and Boston have been better then his turdlike one in the Olympics, but they have't been the same as his previously mentioned performances that suggested he could be a world beater by now.
too much high altitude running, I think. Him and his coach never know what kind of times he'll run in a race. He's come down from altitude to run cross country races, which he ran poorly in the past few years. He's also run some 15k races in the spring with hype that he was gunning for an American record and he was no where close. He even had no idea how fast he migh run in his two lead up half marathons this summer/fall. He though he might run 60 mins or 64 mins. These guys run slow miles at high altitude (7000feet plus), and think they can come down to altitude and suddenly run 20 seconds/mile faster. It doesn't always work that way. His big 18 mile tempo at altitude was only at 5 min/mile pace. If that's the FASTEST hre's doing longer runs, it's no wonder he can't hang when someone throws down a 4:35 in the race.
I'm not saying his coach doesn't know anything, but thye've done more high altitude running the past year and a half, and it hasn't worked. Ritz used to run at altitude and it didn't work for his racing in college and just after. Now that he's focusing on speed at sea level, he's taken off. Hall needs a change from slow high altitude jogging.
Joe
Doesn't Meb train in Mammouth as well? What's your theory there? Come on guys....
Hall didn't necessarily do bad today.
his time wasnt there, but it wasnt as bad as people think. i look at it this way: he finished 3rd in boston. in that marathon, most of the better marathoners were over in london so they could run faster times. here though, he only got 1 place worse though, and he beat most of a fantastic field of marathoners, including the 3rd fastest in history, james kwambai.
You shouldn't be comparing the training of a 27 year old with that of a 34 year old.
I think Hall does better with a faster race. He's more in his element in a Chicago, London, Berlin type race. Flat, fast, and plenty of pace makers.
During Kwambai/Kibet's 2:04 race, the TV commentator said that it's easier to start with a fast pace and hold on to a rhythm then it is to start slow and pick up the pace near latter stages of the race. This is why I believe Hall is a rhythm runner - not suited for championship-style races.
I think the big question here is what Hall was doing in 2007 that he isn't doing now?
59:47
2:08
2:06
2:09 winning at the trials
What was he doing then that he isn't now? He hasn't shown even a hint of that ability in any of his races since. He just hasn't look like a guy who could win a race since the trials. Does anyone here honestly think he could have run another 2:06 at any point since the OTs?
lulzz wrote:Does anyone here honestly think he could have run another 2:06 at any point since the OTs?
My gut tells me he could have run a 2:06 in London in 2008, about five months after the OTs. I'm thinking about 2:06:17ish, give or take half a second.
Exactly. He has critical years of training in front of him.... he is just getting into his prime. We've yet to see what he will be capable of. Give him a few years. I think the most impressive thing is dathan, abdi, hall, torres are all in their prime or just getting into their prime. The next 5 years COULD be the best years the U.S has ever had in marathoning. I know, I know, Salazar, Meyer, etc. the early 80's were great but the depth in the marathon is much greater now. We're going to be a tough "out" for the next few years.
800 dude wrote:
You shouldn't be comparing the training of a 27 year old with that of a 34 year old.
'The marathon can always humble you'
- W.H. Rodgers
Everyone has bad races at this distance. And I would not say that Hall has had a really bad one yet. He's had some really bad patches, I think, in 3 of his last 4 and fought through each. To win against the field that was in NYC today, you need to have the perfect race. Only one guy did. Ryan had a good race. If he had finished fourth in Beijing a lot of you would be hanging from his nutsack. I would argue that the field today was pretty close to being as good as Beijing. When he wins Boston next year - or whenever, and he will - you all will be here under different names saying that you knew he had it in him.
* First and foremost, accept the fact that he is not as good as he thinks he is. He is not at Wanjuru or Lel level but he probably think he is.Saying he is in the best shape of his life but ran like what he did today means he has yet to master his training and understanding what it takes to win a major marathon. He has yet to show he can hang with the leaders in a major marathon after 20 miles. He finished relatively high in each race, but it means little since he was never a factor in the race.If you watch his videos in the past 12 months, he sounds like he knows everything about the marathon.* Focus more on running and less on other promotional activities. * Don't hype too much. People will not pay any attention if he continues to say he will break 59 mins when he ran 1:02, best shape in his life and will win Boston when he got drop by 15 miles and again, best shape in his life and will win NY when he got drop so early at 16 miles.* Hang out less with slow runners. He probably thinks he is Wanjuru when he runs with 2:15 - 2:18 marathoners in training.With his continued disappointment (for him, meaning fail to win), people will be much more skeptical about what he says and hopefully this will make Hall talk less and delivery result instead.
wanna know wrote:
What's up with Hall? He obviously has the tools to handle a pace like today and throw in a late surge but he didn't. I would say that NY, Boston, and Beijing were all big disappointments for him. Does anyone else here agree? What do you think that he will do to break out of it? Should he try some 5/10Ks on the track in the spring?
Nutella1 wrote:
From his twitter updates it seems that he runs a lot of intervals (like 1k or 1 mile repeats). I think it was discussed many times on this board that intervals should be deemphasized in marathon training.
Yes but mile intervals probably end up being pretty darn close to goal marathon pace at 7000' so he sort of falls backward into marathon specific work. I say this works unintentionally because in interviews I get the impression that he thinks this is 10km training but with the altitude adjusted times it works quite well for a marathon specific phase. That's just the impression I get though.
Poster Formerly Known asGoober wrote:
Yes but mile intervals probably end up being pretty darn close to goal marathon pace at 7000' so he sort of falls backward into marathon specific work. I say this works unintentionally because in interviews I get the impression that he thinks this is 10km training but with the altitude adjusted times it works quite well for a marathon specific phase. That's just the impression I get though.
Interesting.....thanks!
I don't get it why people expect these guys to be perfect. Unbelieveable. And all of the critics aren't even fast themselves. Even more unbelievable.
When's the last time you had an "off" race?
Shoot, 2:10 at NYC... I'd take it. And if Meb wasn't in front of him then you'd all still being saying Hall is the man.
Nothing is wrong with Hall.
hall was mean to me in central park!
Toronto wrote:
* Don't hype too much... when he got drop by 15 miles and again, best shape in his life and will win NY when he got drop so early at 16 miles...
Please stop saying "got drop".