MD XC kid dq'd for shorts - RAMPAGE!!!

Maryland has done this before. Back in 98 during my conference meet (CMAC I think, it is something different now), the girl who won, Jill Krebs, was dq'd after she won for having a pink bra on underneath her uniform. One of the straps was showing, and an official caught it and gave her the axe.

if you can't follow simple rules, then you don't deserve to win

HS XC/T&F officiating always baffles me. Can anyone explain when/why the nit-pickiness about details like this came about? This sort of disqualification seems incredibly prevalent, especially when compared to collegiate xc.

What is the rational justification behind even creating rules like this? Does a standard single/shorts to be worn on the outermost layer not suffice for the high-and-mighty HS county XC meet?

In the WIAA in Wisconsinin xc, there was a rule against wearing headbands if the purpose was to keep sweat out of your eyes; but you could wear headbands to keep your hair out of your eyes...fricking admin bureaucratic types that have nothing better to do...I swear they think that sports in high school would cease to exist if their administrations ended...

It seems to me to be a simple case of a general principle (i.e., that a team's uniforms look alike) being reduced to very specific rules (i.e., single color under garments that are common for all team members) so that it removes any subjectivity from the ruling process. Yeah, it seems silly, but rules/laws must be written in very specific ways and then enforced closely, or not at all. If I were an official, I wouldn't want to have to make judgments of what constitutes a uniform violation serious enough to warrant disqualification, and which violations are minor enough to ignore.

Larry David wrote:

It seems to me to be a simple case of a general principle (i.e., that a team's uniforms look alike) being reduced to very specific rules (i.e., single color under garments that are common for all team members) so that it removes any subjectivity from the ruling process. Yeah, it seems silly, but rules/laws must be written in very specific ways and then enforced closely, or not at all. If I were an official, I wouldn't want to have to make judgments of what constitutes a uniform violation serious enough to warrant disqualification, and which violations are minor enough to ignore.

You cannot be such and apologist for the status quo that you actually believe what you just wrote.

The kid was DQed because the STITCHING on his compression shorts was white, vs the compression shorts, which were black. Black on black would have been ok. White on black? No....

what sort of lesson does this teach children?! My god...

DQed because of a pink bra?!? wtf!? These people should be pushed in front of a moving train. They are oxygen thieves. This is the same state that let a 21yr old man compete against children?

....those who can't teach, go to the Maryland Public School system.

To all the people who are agreeing with the DQ, what the hell. Oh hey its a rule so we should all follow the rule?! Dude, its a messed up rule that ruined this kids season. And it should be thrown out. It obviously does not make the kid run faster. This is stupidity to a new degree.

This isnt a Maryland thing. This comes up in mamy many states. Ridiculous DQ's for hairbands, pre-wrap, gloves with a logo... a myriad of miniscule and completely irrelevant things.

Dont blame the officials either. The rules have been written to take any decision (subjectiveness) away from them. A pervious poster made this point.

Start with your State High School Athletic Associations. Start writing letters today, criticizing their enforcement of a rule book that has absolutely no relevance to TF or XC.

I had a girl I coached get DQ'ed at the State Meet for walking onto the track with an elastic hair band around her wrist. She was going to put it in her hair before the race, but DQ'ed her as soon as she stepped on the track. Gotta love Arkansas.

llort_vbo wrote:

if you can't follow simple rules, then you don't deserve to win

That kind of thinking cost a lot of Florida voters their voice in 2000.

Nobody is debating whether or not the rule was broken. We're commenting on the fact that whoever thought that rule up should be embarrassed for themselves, and the rule ought to be retroactively reversed. That's the only fair way to do it IMO.

themanontherun wrote:

llort_vbo wrote:

if you can't follow simple rules, then you don't deserve to win

That kind of thinking cost a lot of Florida voters their voice in 2000.

Nobody is debating whether or not the rule was broken. We're commenting on the fact that whoever thought that rule up should be embarrassed for themselves, and the rule ought to be retroactively reversed. That's the only fair way to do it IMO.

I hope the posters who are saying the rule should have been overlooked at just high school kids home from school today. Yes, high school uniform rules may be ridiculous, but they are the rules, and officials are expected to enforce these rules no matter how insignificant they may seem to us. You don't like the rules? Well then take the advice of an earlier poster and start writing letters. Otherwise, shut up.

these rules do not materially affect the outcome of the event, nor do they protect athletes in any way.

They therefore serve no purpose...enforcing them is churlish in the extreme.

themanontherun wrote:

llort_vbo wrote:

if you can't follow simple rules, then you don't deserve to win

That kind of thinking cost a lot of Florida voters their voice in 2000.

Anyone too stupid to punch a card correctly doesn't deserve to a voice in something so important. Only a biased lefty moron would think the 2000 election can be compared to a kid getting DQed in a race.

themanontherun wrote:

Nobody is debating whether or not the rule was broken. We're commenting on the fact that whoever thought that rule up should be embarrassed for themselves, and the rule ought to be retroactively reversed. That's the only fair way to do it IMO.

The rules can be changed in the future, individual officials can make a point of pretending not to see something, but they can't be retroactively reversed. I know in Ohio that these rules catch a lot of girls whose coaches aren't properly aware of them, including state champions (because they are highly visible). It is pretty much a nation wide thing.

This is just like the right wing voter fraud in 2008! We will not Forget!!!! RAMPAGE!!

Oh wait.... Obama won... nevermind..

1) rules should be enforced or they shouldn't exist

2) his team deserved to lose just because he was wearing spandex

if the rule is so important, then why not do checks before the race? At my kids' soccer games, the refs check for compliance before the game. A junior bike races they do roll outs to verify legal gearing.

Of course, this rule probably isn't so important.

You CAN have an unambiguous code -- zero subjectivity -- that eliminates BS like this. Simply write into the code that the ONLY thing that defines a uniform is the singlet and the pair of shorts worn on the outer layer. If team members differ in this criteria, then you have an infraction. If someone decides to wear a neon green sports bra, leaves a hair band on their wrist, wears a necklace, wears their gloves because it is cold (and those gloves happen to have a swoosh on them), then under this type of code, it is simply irrelevant, as it should be.

A standard uniform requires a simple flowchart. Are the team members wearing identical singlet/shorts (except for size, of course)? If yes, continue. If no, violation. Do any of the team members have garments that obscure the team uniform (jacket, shorts over team shorts, etc)? If no, done and good. If yes, violation. We don't need anything else.

"Yeah, it seems silly, but rules/laws must be written in very specific ways and then enforced closely, or not at all."

I agree that rules should be unambiguous, but that does not mean that rules should dictate meaningless details. A law can say that something irrelevant is just irrelevant.

Close enforcement for all laws? Speed limits are pretty well-defined, but do you really think we need a cop with a radar gun on every corner?

"no matter how insignificant they may seem to us." Your wording here suggests a lack of knowledge on our part, as if the high school league had a meaningful, but non-obvious, reason for their rules. That is totally incorrect.

The role of high school sports officials is to ensure safety and fair competition. The color of the stitches on your compression shorts has nothing to do with these goals. On this basis, I argue against you: HS sports officials have an ethical duty to a) ignore these rules and b) seek their removal from the code.

any pics of the girls races ? bun shots only.

doubleup wrote:

A pervious poster made this point.

Now who are you to be making assumptions about who is and isn't pervious? A person's hydrogeologic characteristics are a very personal thing and should not be discussed on a public message board.