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    • Too fast, too slow
      • Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/1/2009 3:20PM
      • Too fast, too slow
      • I'm a high school boy, I have a PR of 17:46 in the XC 5K and although I was injured this track season my goal time is 17:00 in the XC 5K this upcoming season.

        How fast should my easy/recovery/double runs be? I've always just gone by what I feel is "easy" which is 8:00-9:00 pace depending on the day. But other runners on my team have told me this isn't fast enough to get aerobic improvement, they say I should be running around the 6:30-7:30 pace area.

        So what are the disadvantages/advantages of doing these runs faster or slower? Does it matter whether they're recovery runs (the day after a meet, for example), easy runs (normal days), or double runs (after a hard workout)?
    • One Last Time
      • RE: Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/1/2009 3:48PM - in reply to Too fast, too slow
      • One Last Time
      • 8-9 minutes a mile is about right. Remember this is a recovery run so "recover".

        Improve your racing "speed" through races, intervals and tempo runs.
    • kris
      • RE: Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/1/2009 4:19PM - in reply to Too fast, too slow
      • kris
      • It depends on the training approach, if you do hard workouts, tempo runs or races three days a week you are better of running 9 minutes pace to truly recover.

        If you don't do workouts 7'00"/mile is a stress what will take less then 24 hours to recover for short runs for a 17'40" 5 km runner.

        Note that 6'30" - 7'30" for a 5000 runner is NOT recovery pace. It will only empty your sugar supplies further as this pace is above aerobic threshold. So if you do workouts or races don't try to run those paces. a 10' down to 7'30" would be fine though.
    • From an elite marathoner
      • RE: Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/1/2009 4:29PM - in reply to Too fast, too slow
      • From an elite marathoner
      • You will get more out of a run by going at 8-9min. pace (aerobic development AND greater recovery) than 6:30-7:30 pace (aerobic development only). By being better recovered, you will get more out of yourself on harder days and in races. Going too hard on easy days is a BIG mistake many younger runners make.
    • WWRD
      • RE: Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/1/2009 4:35PM - in reply to From an elite marathoner
      • WWRD
      • I'm a slow old guy, great question, and great advice that I need reaffirmation on. I'm a 20:00 5k 42 year old training for a marathon. I struggle when I ran alone and try and run slower than 8:30 on recovery's. I need to do better, thanks again for a good question and sincere responses!
    • 20k dreamer
    • kris
      • RE: Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/1/2009 5:15PM - in reply to From an elite marathoner
      • kris
      • I want to add my runs got a boost when i ran doubles at slower then 8'30" per mile in the evening for me 110 - 120 heart rate with a maximal heart rate over 190. I was always more recovered for the other runs that had quality (aka .85 x 3 mile pace). Those where fast runs but i don't do other work at the moment so it goes fine.
    • Too fast, too slow
      • RE: Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/1/2009 6:59PM - in reply to kris
      • Too fast, too slow
      • Hm, thanks guys! I'm getting a little more confident now that I'm not crazy.

        Are there any articles about the physiological reasons of "slower on easy runs is often better", or are there any examples of great runners or coaches who do this? It feels like there are just two types of people, and neither of them really explain why slower or faster easy runs are better. I mean, is there evidence?
    • coopington
      • RE: Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/1/2009 9:41PM - in reply to Too fast, too slow
      • coopington
      • I ran 15:10 recently, so please consider that time difference when reading my following comments, which are simply my opinion (and many people have better physiological reasoning- I just know how I feel, personally):

        Honestly, 8-9 minutes per mile feels slow; not easy, SLOW. You don't have to go that slow to still recover. I can't even hold my normal running form going that slow. I'm not sure why everyone thinks that in order to recovery you must be running minutes slower than normal (when not doing workouts 1-3 times per week). I feel that I recovery quite well bumping my normal pace back just 20-30 seconds. This still allows me a chance to recovery and attack my workouts.

        I guess the moral of my story is that you have to run by feel, but also not compromise your stride, form, and probably stride frequency (too much).

        I also have a hard time imagining a high school situation that would require recovery days to be that slow. HS workouts aren't usually that high in volume or intensity and daily mileage typically doesn't exceed 8 miles for someone running your times.
    • coopington
      • RE: Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/1/2009 9:51PM - in reply to coopington
      • coopington
      • Also, Daniel's VDOT tables, which I know are not the end all, be all, recommend a 7:22 EASY pace for a 17:00 5k runner, 7:40 for a 17:40. I'm not sure if the time you ran was on a difficult course. If so, take that into account too when using the VDOT chart recommendations.
    • From an elite marathoner
      • RE: Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/1/2009 10:09PM - in reply to coopington
      • From an elite marathoner
      • coopington wrote:
        Also, Daniel's VDOT tables, which I know are not the end all, be all, recommend a 7:22 EASY pace for a 17:00 5k runner, 7:40 for a 17:40. I'm not sure if the time you ran was on a difficult course. If so, take that into account too when using the VDOT chart recommendations.
        Daniel's easy pace is an upper aerobic limit, NOT an average pace. That's a pace you might aim for during a steady long run, not a pace for achieving recovery.
    • farting zebra manbearpig
    • piling on
      • RE: Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/1/2009 10:53PM - in reply to coopington
      • piling on
      • coopington wrote:
        I ran 15:10 recently, so please consider that time difference when reading my following comments, which are simply my opinion (and many people have better physiological reasoning- I just know how I feel, personally):

        Honestly, 8-9 minutes per mile feels slow; not easy, SLOW. You don't have to go that slow to still recover. I can't even hold my normal running form going that slow. I'm not sure why everyone thinks that in order to recovery you must be running minutes slower than normal (when not doing workouts 1-3 times per week). I feel that I recovery quite well bumping my normal pace back just 20-30 seconds. This still allows me a chance to recovery and attack my workouts.

        I guess the moral of my story is that you have to run by feel, but also not compromise your stride, form, and probably stride frequency (too much).

        I also have a hard time imagining a high school situation that would require recovery days to be that slow. HS workouts aren't usually that high in volume or intensity and daily mileage typically doesn't exceed 8 miles for someone running your times.
        Agree with all you said and would add this much more:

        1. Most high school athletes take a day off per week, further enhancing recovery (in addition to what coopington mentioned above).

        2. Running at 7:30 pace with good form exacts far less pounding to the body, and requires almost zero additional energy expenditure, when compared running at 9:00 pace with poor form, not to mention the muscle memory issues created by running at 9:00 pace. Simply stated, if you can run 17:30 (roughly 5:40 per mile), moving at 8:30 or 9:00 pace is not running, it's plodding/jogging.

        I submit you're better off walking briskly than jogging at 8:30 or 9:00 per mile.

        So, there is another side to this discussion.
    • oldxcdude
      • RE: Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/1/2009 11:30PM - in reply to farting zebra manbearpig
      • oldxcdude
      • I'm currently in slightly slower shape than the OP.

        I struggle to be able to hit the slow 8:15-8:30 pace i should be running on easy days. I find that my form gets all weird when trying to run that pace. The solution i found that works for me is to use a treadmill for EASY days. I set the pace and keep an eye on my HR and i am able to keep my pace to force an easy run. Otherwise when outdoors i tend to speed up without even noticing that i am. I'm old enough to know that easy days are very important but also stupid enough to sometimes hammer them when outdoors.
    • Too fast, too slow
      • RE: Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/1/2009 11:58PM - in reply to coopington
      • Too fast, too slow
      • Ugh, so nobody really knows which way's better? Does anybody have any EVIDENCE?

        Oh and in my case I'm doing 3-4 hard workouts a week and 3 doubles a week, 1 day off a week, ~70 MPW. But I'd really like to see some sort of generalized theory of easy run pacing.
    • ExCoastRanger
      • RE: Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/2/2009 12:07AM - in reply to Too fast, too slow
      • ExCoastRanger
      • The general consensus seems to be your easy runs should be easy. They should feel easy. Not so slow as to feel awkward. Not so fast as to cause stress. Easy enough for recovery Easy.
    • kinda but really not smart
      • RE: Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/2/2009 12:39AM - in reply to Too fast, too slow
      • kinda but really not smart
      • Too fast, too slow wrote:
        Ugh, so nobody really knows which way's better? Does anybody have any EVIDENCE?
        The EVIDENCE is inconsistent, and most often anecdotal.

        The reason for this is because each program and regimen is unique, and furthermore the physiology of each runner is also unique.

        Speak with your coach about it, (s)he is better equipped to answer your question than any of us here are.
    • former fast runner
      • RE: Easy run pace - Is faster better? 9/2/2009 8:49AM - in reply to Too fast, too slow
      • former fast runner
      • I was a top woman Div I college runner. I noticed a HUGE improvement when I started running my easy days slower. My workouts also got much faster. Easy days should be easy and hard days hard, otherwise you sort of just hit medium-hard every day.