Caster Semenya update

More importantly: will any of the US women beat any of the US men in the WC marathon this weekend?

Cryprorchidism = undescended testicles, the most common birth defect in males. Semenya's muscular physique (and body/facial hair, Adam’s Apple, bone structure, etc.) could only result result from copious androgen (testosterone) secteted by HIS ectopic (inguinal/pelvic/retroperitoneal) gonads.

Sadly, HE probably doesn’t even know it.....yet.

Evidently, XY-baby Caster's socialized-medicine providers in South Africa concluded that penectomy was easier/cheaper than orchidopexy. Deluded proponents of ObamaCare take note: Da Gub’ment might quickly decree that it’s more expedient to lop of your little baby’s little pecker, too!

BTW -- Cryptorchidism is the main risk factor for Seminoma (a form of testicular cancer), which is the most common cancer among young males. However, Semenya's nuts are not accessible for clinical surveillance.

What if Caster is an "intersex?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexuality

I doubt the IAAF or IOC has ever thought much about this. I am glad they are questioning the legitimacy of Caster's performance. But I always felt they should have done the same with Maria Mutola.

If s/he ends up being an intersex, it is an unfair advantage...physically probably even more of a benefit than EPO. I could see Caster running 148 in a few years. Heck, in 2008 Caster was running 2:11!!

people who make jokes at other people's expense suck!

Given her power - she looked every bit a good, if somewhat inefficient, male high school runner at the 1:52/53 level - a time I clearly believe she can run right now - I can see 1:50 in the offing. He power is such that I see her giving a rough time to even a great 400 runner like Sanya Richards if she could hang in there until the last straight/

Her shoulder and upper body strength are indeed like a man's - and given her meteoric improvement, it looks like she has only recently reaping the benefits of serious training.

The problem is that a 1:52 800 performance - and I don't think she is drugged - will just create all sorts of havoc and massive public inquiry. The South Africans just really dropped the ball here.

Hell to the NO - i am african, and so am confident that i know a hell of a lot more about african women than u. u are a typical example of an ignorant american. the women u have mentioned are east african - very different from the women i am talking about - south and west african women. go to nigeria, ghana, south africa etc and u will see a few women like semenya. and i would also like to point out that quite a few women from the limpompo province(where i and semenya come from) bear resemblance to semenya. so shut your ignorant mouth and don't talk about what u don't understand!

SA - I think the reasonable posters here have empathy for this woman but nevertheless think there is an issue here. And it is hurtful to her to have it played out on a world stage.

Your generalizations are not persuasive, for even if some women look like this athlete, it is doubtful that they share the very masculine (including power) characteristics of this athlete. You protest too much.

Quite frankly, I am certain that South Africa, including the Limpompo province, has many beautiful and feminine women, just like in America. And it has some that don't quite fit this category, just like in America. Your rant doesn't contribute to the discussion, although I understand you being upset at some of the comments here.

chiptime wrote:

people who make jokes at other people's expense suck!

That was a terrible joke!

I've got my undergraduate degree in exercise science and I've worked with a lot of athletes through internships both at the high school and collegiate levels (I was a runner myself at a small D1 school in Virginia)

The only athletes I've seen that look like Caster Semenya are men or women on anabolic steroids (pretty developed musculature especially considering he/she is only 18 years old), in either case, rules have been broken. Bottom line.

This controversy needs to be resolved for the benefit of all women. As a woman who grew up in the 70s and 80s and before Title 9, I know that women have fought too hard and too long for equal recognition in athletics to be set back by having to compete unfairly with those who may actually be biological men.

Christina wrote:

This controversy needs to be resolved for the benefit of all women. As a woman who grew up in the 70s and 80s and before Title 9, I know that women have fought too hard and too long for equal recognition in athletics to be set back by having to compete unfairly with those who may actually be biological men.

Title 9 is to blame for this scat .

Give me a break. What they're talking about is giving some uninsured people a choice of Medicare. Nothing more or less. And that probably won't even make it through the Congress.

Molon Labe wrote:

Cryprorchidism = undescended testicles, the most common birth defect in males. Semenya's muscular physique (and body/facial hair, Adam’s Apple, bone structure, etc.) could only result result from copious androgen (testosterone) secteted by HIS ectopic (inguinal/pelvic/retroperitoneal) gonads.

Sadly, HE probably doesn’t even know it.....yet.

Evidently, XY-baby Caster's socialized-medicine providers in South Africa concluded that penectomy was easier/cheaper than orchidopexy. Deluded proponents of ObamaCare take note: Da Gub’ment might quickly decree that it’s more expedient to lop of your little baby’s little pecker, too!

BTW -- Cryptorchidism is the main risk factor for Seminoma (a form of testicular cancer), which is the most common cancer among young males. However, Semenya's nuts are not accessible for clinical surveillance.

Too many people trying to defend Semenya and South Africa.

Too few people trying to defend the seven women in the race, or Hazel Clark who just missed the final. If you think of it from their point of view, this is an easy decision for the IAAF.

Look at Semenya's hands. In a male, the ring finger is longer than the pointy finger. In a female, they're the same size.

Religious Persian wrote:

Look at Semenya's hands. In a male, the ring finger is longer than the pointy finger. In a female, they're the same size.

You are so full of crap. My ring finger on both hands is slightly longer than my index (proper term for pointy) fingers and I'm definitely not male. And my husband inspects on a regular basis. He can verify - no penis.

Religious Persian wrote:

Look at Semenya's hands. In a male, the ring finger is longer than the pointy finger. In a female, they're the same size.

Ring and pointer finger comparisons are just evidence of different hormone levels. Woman have, in general, much more estrogen while men, in general, have much more testosterone. The middle part of the spectrum is where you start to get the "feminine male" or vice versa.

Religious Persian wrote:

Look at Semenya's hands. In a male, the ring finger is longer than the pointy finger. In a female, they're the same size.

If that's true, the IAAF owes me some womens WR's and gold medals even though I've sired 5 kids.

Religious Persian wrote:

Look at Semenya's hands. In a male, the ring finger is longer than the pointy finger. In a female, they're the same size.

I'm sure that's the main test the IAAF will use to resolve this.

Toby Wan Kenoby wrote:

Not if it gives her an unfair advantage. To compete fairly with other women, you have to be "entirely female". If she is not, then she should compete with boys/men. Simple as that.

Touche´

You cut to the heart of the issue. I really don't care WHAT she was raised to think she was. That's not the point. That's her gender, not her sex. A boy could be raised to think he was a girl, but that wouldn't give him the right to run in the women's division, would it? Of course not.

That's essentially what we're talking about here, except we're most likely talking about a genetic hermaphrodite--an "intersex" person, to use the jargon--who was either born without male genetalia (but with a Y chromosome or some other male-sexing abnormality) or WAS born with such genetalia but for whatever reason was castrated at birth. I won't speculate, except to say that I'm guessing the former scenario is what finally plays out: genetically part-male, or all-male, but for whatever reason born without male primary and secondary sexual characteristics. Still, coming to maturity with somewhat more testosterone in his/her system than a genetic all-woman.

If the IAAF rules stipulate that one must be "all woman" to compete in the women's division--whatever "all woman" means--and fair and judicious testing proves that Semenya is not, in fact, all woman, then she should be DQ'd. That's a no-brainer.

The fact that there's so much flurry around his/her presence in the finals is also a no-brainer, and no sign of racism, cultural misunderstanding, or any other retrograde social dynamic. This isn't about a lack of compassion on the part of anybody at Letsrun or in the media. It's not about Western bodily aesthetics somehow getting Semanya "wrong." I've met plenty of women in my life, white and black, from Maine to Mississippi, who have bits of facial hair and gruff voices. None of them, however, have those masculine characteristics AND slaughter the best female athletes in the world AND plainly look, except for three key bulges, exactly like male athletes in every respect. Usually the witchy ladies have some curves, or higher cackling voices. They don't look, sound, and sprint like dudes.

It's the combination of Semenya's unreal performance AND her completely convincing male appearance and affect that has raised suspicions--and quite rightly.

When the Russian female athletes are complaining, you know something's going on wrong.