No way! This is exciting. The years Armstrong won, he was the team's #1. This year he is expected to be a lieutenant for another. But, here we are going into the mountain stages, and Armstrong will be ahead by Sunday.
No way! This is exciting. The years Armstrong won, he was the team's #1. This year he is expected to be a lieutenant for another. But, here we are going into the mountain stages, and Armstrong will be ahead by Sunday.
clarksonxc wrote:
The climbs have been way too far away from the finish for them to really matter. Still, the Alps should be exciting; I can't see the entire peloton riding together on every ascent there. Hopefully one of the contenders will crack, and someone who has been a little back (Schleck, Evans) will move up top.
This is a general requirement - only about 2-3 true mountain top finishes and there cannot be much of ones 'just before', either. Sorry if you do not like it.
As I read these complaints, I get the feeling that many do not really understand the details of the Grand Tours and of the importance of this race. It is the job of the top team(s) to make it seem 'boring' as possible. You have to watch it within the context of what might happen given what the starting point is in terms of personnel and teams.
You have to understand why teams are doing what they are. Did you look at what AG2R did in the first part of Stage 10 and how Astana countered their attempt in Stage 11 and do you know what those chess moves are about and why they (may) matter? If you do not understand all of that, go back to the play-by-play for both stages (e.g., Cyclingnews.com 'Live') and read through what is happening and see if you can figure it out. Maybe if you get all the various things going on it will not be so boring.
A setup race for a 10,000m for Bekele with a WR is a boring race (even with the excitement of 'can he do it). This race is not boring, although it is not the most interesting Tour ever. [Postal did some marvelous riding/strategy/taking advantage in 1999 for a team that had never had a real GC podium before - although I think Lance was 4th at the 1998 Vuelta.]
rombus wrote:
No way! This is exciting. The years Armstrong won, he was the team's #1. This year he is expected to be a lieutenant for another. But, here we are going into the mountain stages, and Armstrong will be ahead by Sunday.
My guess is that he will not be ahead but he may still be only 2 seconds behind Contador. There are more complexities in this year's race than in most years and it makes the strategies tougher to figure out than usual and makes more of the moves concealed for longer (which may make it boring for people).
V6 wrote:
Goes rogue? Contador is the team leader and the best stage cyclist on the planet. Armstrong is the one going rogue. He is a 37 year old. I don't think he would've defeated Contador in his prime, let alone seven years later.
Contador might be the most over-rated rider I've seen since Alex Zulle. Contador has only been successful since the doping crackdown eliminated a lot of quality riders from competition (which he somehow escaped despite being all over the Operation Puerto paperwork). The only reason he won the '07 Tour is that Vinokourov was eliminated before the race started when Astana withdrew and Rasmussen tested positive. Think about that....Contador essentially lost to Rasmussen, who no one considers a great Grand Tour rider (and who, most likely, didn't hold a 'drug' advantage over Contador either). Since then, Contador has ridden well in Grand Tours, but the fields have been very weak (beating Levi by 46 seconds in the Vuelta, and Ricco by 1:57 in the Giro. Not exactly stuff of legend).
So, to say that he would have defeated LA in his prime is a bit silly. I don't even think he'll be able to beat a 37 year old LA.
You make some reasonable points. I'm not sure how he came out of the Operation Puerto stuff innocent. With that being said, he's beat the worlds best the last few years. It's a different level of guys because people may actually be clean now. I don't know if you can hold it against Contador that people kept getting popped for dope and he ended up victorious because of it. They were doped!
Isn't Rasmussen back racing after his suspension? How fast is he going?
How about Basso? How about all the other guys that were getting busted and served suspensions? Contador is beating the best of the 'possibly clean' guys. Its a different era I think we're starting to see and is almost uncomparable to even just a few years ago.
When you're beating the best the world has to throw at you I think you can't do much more.
That said, I hate Contador.
No Way wrote:
I can't remember a more mind-numbingly boring Tour de France.
I thought this lame thread had disappeared but it continues to limp along.
How many of you find every play of every football, basketball & table tennis game, every pitch of every baseball game, every stroke of every golf match, every shot in every billiards game, every pass in every soccer match exciting? How many find every lap of every track race exciting?
If your attention span is that short to expect fireworks on every stage, you will be disappointed in every TDF, every Giro. The flip side is, I'd give my proverbial left nut to be in a 'dull' Tour. Tell me you wouldn't, I dare you.
scotth wrote:
I thought this lame thread had disappeared but it continues to limp along.
How many of you find every play of every football, basketball & table tennis game, every pitch of every baseball game, every stroke of every golf match, every shot in every billiards game, every pass in every soccer match exciting? How many find every lap of every track race exciting?
If your attention span is that short to expect fireworks on every stage, you will be disappointed in every TDF, every Giro. The flip side is, I'd give my proverbial left nut to be in a 'dull' Tour. Tell me you wouldn't, I dare you.
Hey, if a guy believes this is a boring tour than to him this is a boring tour. Stop being such an arrogant prick.
By the way, I am a former Tour champ and am the president of the pro cycling league. And guess what, this is a boring ass tour!
Rasmussen is actually a great grand tour rider. He has the endurance to last over stages, and anything with mountains he dominates. In the TDF, the best climbers usually win as long as they can time trial decently. Rasmussen, in 2005, was already a great rider and broke away twice and was a complete BA. In the later tours, he upped his overall game and became, in my opinion, an incredibly talented tour rider. It takes awhile to transition from mountain biking to road cycling.
Contador also is a great time trial man and a phenomenal climber. He isn't overrated, and I think if you analyzed some of his MPH or KPH stats, you'd find he matched up with Lance in his prime, if not rode faster.
scotth wrote:
No Way wrote:I can't remember a more mind-numbingly boring Tour de France.
I thought this lame thread had disappeared but it continues to limp along.
How many of you find every play of every football, basketball & table tennis game, every pitch of every baseball game, every stroke of every golf match, every shot in every billiards game, every pass in every soccer match exciting? How many find every lap of every track race exciting?
If your attention span is that short to expect fireworks on every stage, you will be disappointed in every TDF, every Giro. The flip side is, I'd give my proverbial left nut to be in a 'dull' Tour. Tell me you wouldn't, I dare you.
The only thing more boring than the Tour is France
Hey V6:
Have you ever seen Rasmussen try to TT? How can you call The Chicken a "great grand tour rider"?
Mainly because he was about to win the TDF by 3 minutes before he got fired from Rabobank. He had been working on his time trials. He lost by 1:16 to Cancellara in the opener to 2007. Which is clearly not great--but he was still going to win the Tour de France. Contador wasn't making 3:00 in a time trial.
Anyone who wins the Tour de France, the most competitive of the grand tours, should be considered a great tour rider.
V6 wrote:
Mainly because he was about to win the TDF by 3 minutes before he got fired from Rabobank. He had been working on his time trials. He lost by 1:16 to Cancellara in the opener to 2007. Which is clearly not great--but he was still going to win the Tour de France. Contador wasn't making 3:00 in a time trial.
Anyone who wins the Tour de France, the most competitive of the grand tours, should be considered a great tour rider.
oh wait
but he didn't win the tour
and the only reason he won is because no one went with him on the first stage he rode away with....no one thought he was a contender....the media didn't list him as a contender, none of the teams thought he would, so they let him go....if they had realized he would have actually contended....they wouldn't have let him get away
he was known for riding away on a couple of mountain stages a year....winning polkadot....and then losing in the TT
uh_no wrote:
oh wait
but he didn't win the tour
and the only reason he won
Nice contradiction. But if you can't admit that he was clearly going to win the 2007 Tour, you aren\'t worth arguing with. If he had been allowed to complete the last few stages of the TDF, he would've defeated Cadel Evans, Carlos Sastre, Denis Menchov, Alberto Contador, Levi Leipheimer, Bernhard Kohl, Frank Schleck, and Alejandro Valverde amongst others all in one race.
Also--he won because he was the best rider. He actually EXTENDED his lead after his Stage 8 runaway victory. And he was considered a contender coming in, as he had placed seventh two years earlier and the best climber always has to be considered a threat. He was marked by several riders when he rode away in Stage 8, but he was too strong, and lost almost no time to the chasing group of Valverde, Evans, and others as well as the peloton.
Not to mention he got seventh in the TDF in 2005. Top 5-10 in the TDF are still pretty exceptional Tour riders.
jean-luc Hinot wrote:
Hey, if a guy believes this is a boring tour than to him this is a boring tour. Stop being such an arrogant prick.
Silly boy.
Moving on, about the only 'sport' I can think of that tries to present an exciting program every time out is this thing called 'professional wrestling'. The rest go w/the flux & flow of the moment.
Well, this should be interesting. Leipheimer is out now, with a broken wrist after falling in the rain. Lance loses some support that might have favored him over Contador:
VITTEL (Reuters) - Levi Leipheimer has pulled out of the Tour de France with a fractured wrist, his Astana team said Friday.
"Doc has confirmed that Levi has a transverse fracture of the right scaphoid (in wrist). Will not be able to start," Astana said on their website.
American Leipheimer, who was fourth overall, crashed toward the end of Thursday's 12th stage. Friday's 13th stage is a 200-km trek from Vittel to Colmar.
I think the tour will be decided in the next TT or the last stage up the climb to Mount Ventoux (sp?). It's the only HC climb left and its at the final portion of the stage.
My bet is on Armstrong. He seems to recovery quickly and get's in better shape as the tour progresses.
Hincapie IN THE LEAD!!!! Will the peloton chase him down? That is exciting.
Answer: yes, they will. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see him move into the top ten, only to fall out of it pretty badly tomorrow.
Or even the top 2!! Missed yellow by just 5 seconds.
Why was his teammates leading the chase pack?? Unless they were there to intentionally slow the pace down it didn't make any sense. He looked really pissed at the post race interview.