Hudson and Ritz Part Ways

How do you know he was not real happy about his 28:23 performance? Do you even have any background on Carney? If not, that was just an ignorant statement you just made.

Jerry Baltes.

runner39 wrote:

Tinman could you expand on the strength endurance comment and he would run the 2 mile/5k faster on 10k/10 mile training

thanks

--------------------------------------------

Short on time, so this is brief:

Runners need to be trained, foremost,in accordance with their body's natural capacities. Example: Let's say Matt Tegenkamp wants to race in a big 1500m in Europe this summer. Overall, the guy is really a 3k-5k runner (probaby 2 miles is his optimal event). You have a choice as a coach. You can buy into the common methods of training Matt for the 1500m or you can train him primarily as a 2-miler and just add some short-speed to his training plan in the 4 weeks leading to his goal 1500m race. If you train him with lots of speed and lower mileage, more like a 1500m runner, then he loses valuable parts of his overall performance. If you train him for aerobic strength and stamina, adding in judicious amounts of speed, he prospers. Same goes for Ritz!

You can't train Ritz to be a 5k runner, specifically. However, he can run a solid 5k when he is in great 10k to 10-mile shape, which is his natural range. When you are fit, you are fit; and you race well over variety of distances. To be fit, you have to train in accordance with your body's natural laws. If you race outside your natural range, all you have to do is "touch" on race-pace or tactical training for the event; not focus a great deal of time and energy on it.

Regards,

Tinman

Teg 3:34 1500m

Ritz 8:11 2-mile

fgdfgfgfgfgfgde wrote:

Teg 3:34 1500m

Ritz 8:11 2-mile

Teg 8:07 AR 2-mile

Teg 7:34 3000, 7:40 3000i

Teg 13:04 and 13:07 5000

No comparison at those distances really. Teg is better there.

By the way...what was your point?

Were you trying to say that tinman was wrong in saying Teg's best was probably as a 2 miler and that Ritz was better suited for longer distances. The evidence points to the fact he was right.

Ritz and Brad seemed fine when I saw them both speak at the Eugene Marathon expo two weeks ago. That's strange. Ritz did seem disappointed as his last Marathon though.

Take a step back wrote:

Your post is wrong on a couple levels.

1. Ritz can not train at altitude. So Eldoret would never work.

Why do people say this as an undisputable fact? I think there are several possible explanations for why Ritz was getting injured so often in Boulder, and I'm not convinced it was because of the altitude.

He had minor injury flares ups while in Oregon. He just caught them quicker and hopped on the alter-G.

As far as Ritz and altitude go, didn't he go back to Boulder for some time this past winter to train and see friends? I remember him talking about it in an interview somewhere, so possibly it was just an idea.

When did Jorge leave Hudson? The USATF bio that is current through the Olympics still lists Hudson as his coach. I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just curious when it happened--I apparently missed it.

Lastly, if Hudson wanted to continue coaching athletes for a living, maybe he shouldn't have written a book about how to coach yourself? (Yes, that's a joke.)

Tinman, hope all is well.

Generally I agree that a runner should be trained to physiological strengths, but Ritz is an exception. He's actually in quite a tough spot.

Without a serious attempt to bring down his 1500/3000, his track 5000 and 10000 wont be budging much. He is already in point of fact,a superior 5000 runner to Teg. He loses on the speed side, just as Teg loses to Lagat on the speed side. This is not strictly a question of conditioning.

On the other hand if Ritz trains more traditionally, pushing his miles too high, he suffers on both sides. This is the big mistake Brad made, but they wisely adjusted by bringing him to sea level and cutting back the volume. And Ritz ran well off these changes. Still I think he could pull his miles even lower, down somewhere in the 85/week range, similar to Kibet, with even higher quality and run then he'll run his 205-206.

At this point the best bet is to point for the half marathon and the 59 range.

One of the downsides of this modern running scene is the vast money in the marathon. It is ironic that 20 miles with the lead at London would be worth more than the 209.

Now I have to laugh a bit when they say Ritz should get into a training group. An American who can talk at 450/mi is sort of in a no man's land. But thats Okay. Piling up more 630 miles will get him nowhere. He needs to hammer on his own anyway.

dsrunner wrote:

Without a serious attempt to bring down his 1500/3000, his track 5000 and 10000 wont be budging much. He is already in point of fact,a superior 5000 runner to Teg.

what the hell is this supposed to mean?

Teg pr = 13:04

Ritz pr = 13:16.

Teg has also run a 13:07, as well as made the olympic and WC finals in the 5000, finishing 4th in the WC by a mere 0.3 sec. How is it you surmise Ritz is "already, in point of FACT, a superior 5000 runner to Teg"?

Brad is a nice enough guy but he has no real skills. He was an excellent high school runner because he worked his ass off. He dropped out of college before earning his degree. He spends much of his time paranoid that others are talking about him. If their is a new trend, then Brad is on it yesterday. He prides himself on being in the in with the twenty year olds. He has survived on the NYRR stipend/donation over the last few years. He doesn't own anything. It is kind of a sad situation. If NYRR decide that his group of ladies (and Carney) are no longer a good investment, Brad may be homeless.

Ritz was the superior runner amongst a group that is now taking on American records (Teg in the 5k) and world competition (Hall in the 1/2 and marathon). Even Webb, Ritz's analogue for the first several years of their careers, has set an American record for the mile (and has a faster 10k). Point blank: time to gamble for Dathan; he's beaten too many great runners to consistently disappoint himself and run way below his potential. We waited four years for Goucher to break 13 in a 5k, and watched him get more and more frustrated when he didn't. Ritz is headed for a similar fate unless something changes-- Hud's a great coach, but the last time Ritz ran to his potential was when he beat Hall in the NCAAs.

Jag wrote:

Hud's a great coach, but the last time Ritz ran to his potential was when he beat Hall in the NCAAs.

Nice contradiction.

Nice contradiction.[/quote]

Probably a good point...

Is it really the fault of Hudson's coaching that Ritz threw out the game plan and went through the 5k at London at 2:03 marathon pace? Ritz might have been ready for that 2:07 that he was aiming for, but we'll never know since he charged out of the gate near world record pace.

No it was not Brad's fault. However, his loss to Meb in Houston was definitly an ill prepared Ritz. That was Brad's fault. I could list several other examples, but that is certainly the most recent that comes to mind.

[quote]Ravenmaniac wrote:

Is it really the fault of Hudson's coaching ..."

Well, sort of, yes. Why can't Ritz establish attainable goals? Why's he ALWAYS shown up by people he beat in HS and college? From a critical standpoint, it always looks like Ritz has no game-plan, no idea of how to race if things don't go precisely how he thought-- and that part is the coach's responsibility. (I guess this is me going back on "Hud's a great coach...")

Jag wrote:

[quote]Ravenmaniac wrote:

Is it really the fault of Hudson's coaching ..."

Well, sort of, yes. Why can't Ritz establish attainable goals? Why's he ALWAYS shown up by people he beat in HS and college? From a critical standpoint, it always looks like Ritz has no game-plan, no idea of how to race if things don't go precisely how he thought-- and that part is the coach's responsibility. (I guess this is me going back on "Hud's a great coach...")

maybe because he peaked early 20's. and yes i know PR's as of recent but like Webb PR's don't mean international success, they just mean you can run fast time trials