Pac 10 1500: Rupp vs Centro vs Wheating vs Coe vs Heath

jkjoregon wrote:

Off a kicker's race, who would bet against Wheating?

With a faster pace, there are 4-5 guys who could win if it is their day.

off a kicker's race I would put my money on Abdi Hassan. Nobody can hang with him in the last 200m of any race if it goes out slow. He's got wheels

nomadic wrote:

jkjoregon wrote:

Off a kicker's race, who would bet against Wheating?

With a faster pace, there are 4-5 guys who could win if it is their day.

off a kicker's race I would put my money on Abdi Hassan. Nobody can hang with him in the last 200m of any race if it goes out slow. He's got wheels

Off a medium pace, I'm picking Garrett Heath. He ran a good 5K at Stanford Invite, has run a few 800s (including a fast leg at Drake Relays) and 3:37 at Cardinal.

nomadic wrote:

jkjoregon wrote:

Off a kicker's race, who would bet against Wheating?

With a faster pace, there are 4-5 guys who could win if it is their day.

off a kicker's race I would put my money on Abdi Hassan. Nobody can hang with him in the last 200m of any race if it goes out slow. He's got wheels

In a kickers race you wouldn't take Wheating. Really. Have you seen the man's kick?

When did Americans become... wrote:

"Development" is just an excuse for athletes and coaches to explain away being beaten.

Bekele and El Gerrouj and Geb don't beat you because they have developed ahead of you; they win because they step to the line to win - because they are better.

I'm sick of this "development" crap.

Americans get burned out running dozens of b.s. races. El G, Bekele etc weren't running garbage races for points while "developing". That's why you can count the number of topflight distance runners from US Universities on your fingers. The smart ones get away.

Like Alan Webb?

Wow, Oregon 1-2-3 in a slow kicker's race.

It was one of the best races I have seen in a long time!

Finish video is uploading now -

http://www.runnerspace.com/Pac-10Championships

University of Oregon

Pac-10 Track & Field Championships - 5/9/2009 to 5/17/2009

Presented by 76 Gasoline

Hayward Field : Eugene, Oregon

Event 10 Men 1500 Meter Run

=======================================================================

Meet: + 3:38.7h

Name Year School Finals Points

=======================================================================

Finals

1 Matthew Centrowitz Oregon 3:51.00 10

2 Galen Rupp Oregon 3:51.18 8

3 Andrew Wheating Oregon 3:51.27 6

4 Garrett Heath Stanford 3:51.33 5

5 Abdi Hassan Arizona 3:51.65 4

6 Austin Abbott Washington 3:52.39 3

7 Brandon Bethke Arizona State 3:52.54 2

8 Eric Lee California 3:52.59 1

9 Jordan McNamara Oregon 3:53.26

10 Michael Coe California 3:53.69

11 Joey Bywater Washington 3:54.06

12 Elliott Heath Stanford 3:54.75

=============================================================================

Men - Team Rankings - 10 Events Scored

=============================================================================

1) Oregon 114 2) UCLA 55

3) Stanford 49 4) Arizona 43

5) Washington 40 6) Arizona State 38

7) USC 24 8) California 19

RunnerSpace wrote:

It was one of the best races I have seen in a long time!

Finish video is uploading now -

http://www.runnerspace.com/Pac-10Championships

Wow, that finish was insane. Reminded me of the 800m at the Olympic Trials. Can't wait to see the whole thing, at least the whole last lap. The announcer said Centro closed in 52.

Wow, Heath moves out to push Rupp and not only runs extra distance which costs him, but also opens the door for Wheating. Heath stays inside and Wheating had nowhere to go. I guess running like a bitch isn't the best more after all. Centro did just fine staying in his lane.

Anybody know what's up with Coe -- one of the favorites ends up nearly DFL in the final??

I watched the race from near the 200 meter mark, so I didn't have the best view of the finish, but what really struck me is how well-orchestrated the race seemed to be from an Oregon perspective. Now, I'm nowhere near the caliber of any of the runners in the race, but the outcome did leave me a bit baffled. How did the other major competitors (Coe, Heath, Abbott) let Oregon sweep the top three spots? I'll admit right now that I'm an Oregon grad student and was quite pleased with the outcome. Nevertheless... it does make me wonder.

The easiest explanation is that Oregon had more talent. Maybe Centro, Rupp, and Wheating are unbeatable in the Conference right now. But, if we think about this, Rupp ran a 10k last night (admittedly it was an easy 10k). He had to be somewhat tired and, despite his new-found speed, he is still a strength runner. Wheating is just the opposite. He is a wicked kicker. Centro is probably a true miler. All this is merely to say that these are three very different guys. Yet, if there is one thing that people from other schools need to realize today, it's that a sit-and-kick race will not work in their favor. Rupp is tired. He probably wanted a slow race because he actually has speed and probably would not relish having to try to run a 3:42 the day after a 10k. Wheating also loves a kicker's race. It plays right into his strengths. Why, then, would the rest of the field allow it to become a 3:51 kicker's race?

It seemed to me that McNamara basically sacrificed himself for his teammates. He ran an honest (but not too fast) opening lap. Then he slowed it way down. If you look at the positions of the other Oregon runners on the second and third laps, we've got Rupp in good position (something that a 10k guy needs to do in this situation), Wheating near the back but not boxed in (perfect position for him), and Centro off the back but making a quick, steady move to the front 500 meters out (the long drive of a strong miler). Each of them was doing precisely the thing that would allow them to have a strong finish. Each strategy, though, was somewhat contingent on the slow pace up front.

Because the Hayward Field crowd (and the announcer) gives a bit of a boost to the UO runners, as long as the three top Oregon guys executed their strategies correctly, they would each be in perfect position with 100 to go and would be spurred on by the excitable crowd. It was just a remarkably well-planned race. My question, then, is why did the other excellent runners in the race allow this to happen? It seems like a faster pace from the beginning might have forced a situation that saw either Rupp getting outkicked, Wheating left too far back, or Centro really having to fight towards the end. Additionally, was it inevitable that this was going to happen? There were 4 Oregon guys in the race. They could develop a much stronger strategy than anyone else simply because they had more major players that could be in on the plan for a slow pace. Was there any way that someone like Coe or Abbott could have ruined it by not letting the middle stages of the race fall off pace-wise?

Any thoughts?

My question, then, is why did the other excellent runners in the race allow this to happen. This happens all the time, it's called ego, they all think they can out kick each other.Another answer would but stupidity. And what's up with Micheal Coe?

Wow....great post! You sir, unless most of the befuddled posters on this board, have it pretty well figured out. Thanks for sharing this with the high school kids who don't have a clue as to how it works. Please post more ofter. By the way, you nailed Rupp's time and the fact that the 10K was a walk in the park for him. He then came back and had a great race with Cento in the 1500, with Wheating doing just enough to give his team a 1-2-3 sweep, yet save enough energy to come back an hour later and win his specialty 800 meter race.

I spoke with a guy from the Cal program after the race. He seemed just as befuddled about Coe's race. He intimated that maybe Coe got bumped around just as the final kick started, and could not get his rhythm back.

Natty nuts wrote:

And what's up with Micheal Coe?

Coe was injured by that OSU guy falling on top on his ankle in a 5000m. One less threat to German if he can be made to actually show up and finish a NCAA championship race.

NCAA is ruining runners wrote:

Americans get burned out running dozens of b.s. races. El G, Bekele etc weren't running garbage races for points while "developing". That's why you can count the number of topflight distance runners from US Universities on your fingers. The smart ones get away.

Didn't seem to hurt Lagat or to a lesser degree Meb. The NCAA system isn't the problem.

In HS i ran against a T&F / XC power house with a sub 9 deuce'r and sub 4:10 miler. It was daunting and difficult not to feel intimated on the starting line and during the races. In regional and qualifying races, those two used tactics to help their teammates that were similar to my ability. In a race it doesn't seem like having numbers should make a difference because everyone more or less runs as an individual, but it was harder than it should have been to beat people who were no faster than me.

Maybe other people have had this experience?

Centro will win with 3:35