Women's training and recovery thread - 5/10/09

i like the inclusiveness, both in the revised thread title and in the last line of your post -- that's an umbrella for us all.

an up and down week for me. down in terms of numbers (just 55 miles and two days off due to work constraints) and up and down in terms of run quality.

yesterday was the first in our local trail race series, and although i won i felt just lousy throughout and was slow (7 minutes slower than the same course last year and 15 minutes off my best time there). belly felt yucky and legs felt dead. i only came in first because this year the real competition gravitated to the short, one-loop 13K course, rather than the two-looper. still, the violets and trillium were vibrant and i saw a red newt among the leaves and mud, so it was a very worthwhile outing; besides, running sure beat standing around getting eaten alive by the black flies, and it'll give me something to talk with my ART guy on tuesday (i beat him by about 10 minutes ;-)

happy mother's day and happy/happier legs to all of us. for perspective (and a generally good read on a daily basis), i highly recommend the blog of "SoCal Pete," who has put up a couple of great pieces on what he loves and hates about running:

http://petemagill.blogspot.com

Happy Mudders Day to the Mums!!! I guess I need to learn not to train when sick as I am still under the weather 9 days after this crappy cough/sinusy thing started...

So I went from 50 miles last week to only 20 this week with 4 days off as I am taxing my body way too much expecting it to train when I am at low energy to begin with.

Funny how stubbornly tenacious we can be when the wisest adage is to listen to the body.

I am looking forward to a second massage this week from an excellent Sports Therapist I have found in the area.

Really enjoyed hearing from my 2 grown sons on the phone today, hope it is not long till I see them again, have not caught up with the youngest since 05, far too long.

Hope there are some fun running reports to share in this week, I did have a snake and 2 turtle sightings so can really tell I am in the South....

Anyway, rambling here, happy week one and all!

Happy Mother's Day to you all.

I like the new title of the thread, very inclusive, and well, very much like a woman to come up with it ;-).

I ran 5.5 miles this week! My quad is still hurting in the same place from my marathon last Sunday, despite having a sports massage on Friday - but I am pretty sure it is nothing serious, I might need some ART. The best ART guy around is about 2 hours from my house, so I am going to try to get into him next weekend - in the meantime I think I might try a new massage therapist (hopefully a runner or athlete this time) -- I "like" my current person, but have been feeling for a while now that he just isn't quite getting the job done.

Other news from this side of the map is that summer has arrived. It is hot. Another good thing about being in recovery mode right now is that I can slowly acclimate to heat a little better.

I also bought a bike this week - I am actually planning on taking a couple months sort of "down" from training (not running, but training) and supplementing some of my mileage with biking to work. I was thinking something along the lines of 50 mpw running and 60 mpw biking. I am of two minds, I don't want to lose too much fitness, but after 8 months of great racing and training I just thought a couple months enjoyment of exercise might be in order (I am an old lady after all). Does anyone else have any experiences with this? Good idea? Bad idea?

Have a great week ladies!

Hey ladies. Happy mom's day to those to whom it applies.

Not too much to report; mystery shin pain gone after taking Friday off. Ran 10 miles yesterday with no problems. Going to hit the trails today to get some softer terrain under foot -- plus, I too, have a trail race series about to start.

Two short races upcoming, the five mile trail race next weekend and then a 5k the following week. Three weeks until the half!

azrunner, there have been several periods when injured that i've turned to biking as my primary aerobic activity (typical was replacing 60-90 mpw of running with 200-250 mpw of biking). i've tended to come away from it strong and ready to rumble. mixing up biking and running also works for me; when i'm running happy, i far prefer to do that than bike for exerise, but i do ride for transportation whenever i can (depending on weather - i'm a wimp on the bike in the cold, but that's not something you need to be concerned about in arizona!). as an aside, i spent quite a bit of time in tucson several years ago and found the roads outside of town to be delightful (hilly!) riding; just had to be sure to have a couple of extra patches, tubes, tire irons, and a pump with me, as you probably know quite well, because road debris is mighty sharp in the desert.

sarah, sorry to hear that you're still under the weather and hope you're back on your game soon.

tfltft, have fun on the trails. there's nothing quite like springtime when everything is greening up by the day.

Hi all. This was my final week of training. I've been at this for 25 weeks now and I'm officially sick of it (and so's my poor body; I can feel that I'm right on the edge of exhaustion), so my three week taper is arriving just in time.

I had just two hard workouts this week, although the one yesterday was a doozy. So much so that I had to be immediately immobilized in a comfortable chair and administered a bottle of wine to, uh, "recover." Heh heh.

http://raceslikeagirl.com/2009/05/10/spring-race-training-week-16/

Happy Mother's Day to all you badass mothers. I will be reciting my usual weekly incantations for the walking wounded on this list.

tfltft, you are going to smoke that half. You'll be fully recovered and the shorter races will keep you on the speedy side of the street. That and the fact that a hard full marathon is in itself like a training run on steroids, a major training stimulus...well, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised if you haven't done a post-marathon half before.

Love the new title!

Humbled, I can commiserate. I've essentially abandoned all my heels and other nice shoes, since they seem to aggravate any little injury I may have.

NLS: a win is a win. Congrats :)

Sarah, I'm sorry you're sick, but I think you're definitely making the right decision to take time off.

AZrunning: I've done most of my cross training on the elliptical/arc trainer, because bikes tend to aggravate some lingering back problems that I have (souvenirs of a career of competitive horse riding and some nasty crashes). But, I would think that biking would make a great substitute, especially since it'd be a bit less boring than the elliptical!

Also, if you're like me, your posterior chain tends to be a bit stronger than your quads -- I'd think biking would be great for correcting that, and make you a killer downhill during races.

tfltft: good luck on your series of races, and glad to read that the pain's gone.

RLAG: yesterday's workout looked nasty. Especially in that humidity. More power to you. And congrats on making it to the taper!

Approximately 67 miles plus 2 hours on the arc-trainer.

Yay for the Achilles – No pain, and I’m to the point where I forget I have a problem!

Dailies

Monday: 45 minutes on arc-trainer plus weight training.

Tuesday: 10 miles easy on treadmill (9:14 pace), plus yoga class

Wednesday: In the morning, 14 miles outside, including two tempo intervals of 3.5 miles each, with 5 minutes recovery. Intervals were 7:08 pace (uphill) and 6:38 pace (downhill). Followed up with four short very fast intervals (~5:30 pace) with 90 second recovery between each. I ran these by time, rather than by distance, and did 30 seconds; 40 seconds; 50 seconds; and 60 seconds.

Very good news: in doing the hard intervals, I was able to replicate that “muscle failure/lack of coordination” feeling I get during some of my races when I kick too soon. Any interval longer than 40 seconds, and I started flailing. I say “good news”, because the first step to addressing a problem is being able to replicate it. I’m going to start doing a lot more of these at the end of my hard workouts.

30 minutes on arc-trainer at night (where a recovery run would have been)

Thursday: Very easy 6.5 miles outside (9:01 pace), plus weights

Friday: 10 miles very easy on treadmill (8:55 pace), plus yoga class

Saturday: 8.5 miles very easy outside (8:30 pace), plus 30 minutes arc-trainer

Sunday: 18 miles outside. After a 4.5 mile warmup, I did 6 VO2 Max intervals of a half mile each, with 2:30 recoveries between each. I was shooting for 3:06-3:10 each, but did the first two too fast – intervals were 2:57, 2:57, 3:06, 3:03, 3:09, 3:07. After the intervals, I jogged 6 miles at very easy pace, and then did five very hard short intervals, with durations of 20 seconds, 30 seconds, 40 seconds, 50 seconds, 60 seconds. Each of these were at between 5:20 and 5:30 pace. Then 2.5 easy miles home.

Later, I did the gym for a quick 15 minute shakeout on the elliptical, plus some leg strength training.

Races Like a Girl gave me a nudge to join this thread.

So... hi!

I do not post very regularly in other threads, nor do I keep a training blog like my idol RLAG. ;-)

I simply have an Excel spreadsheet, but oh that spreadsheet. Like 10 sheets, insane calculations, way more complicated than I have Excel knowledge to produce, created by another runner on yet another email list. It tells me my miles, it logs my notes, it watches my shoes, and lately it has been telling me that my mileage . . . sucks.

I've been bouncing around in the 20's and occasional low 30's for months, finally coming around after another close call with achilles junk.

My next scheduled race is Pike's Peak marathon in August, but I'll certainly do something before then, and my goal is to break 1:30 in the half sometime around the end of the year.

That's all... for now. Thank you for reading and for maintaining such a good weekly thread (I've read a handful to try to orient myself).

Miss Tenacity

welcome, miss tenacity -- and it takes at least a bit of tenacity to put yourself on the line for pikes peak, particularly if you're a flatlander (are you?). i raced it in 2007 and worked the finish line there in 2008 while my husband made his way up and down the mountain (i was on the tail end of an injury so had to DNS, but had a lovely first-day-back run in the garden of the gods immediately after the start of the marathon). if you're not used to mountain running and/or don't already have a plan, i have some training tips i could pass along -- mostly tips that fall into the category of what i wish i had done ;-) in actuality, most of the ascent was, by necessity, spent hiking (and my legs are just too short to do that quickly), but boy was the downhill fun!

Ha ha! That's funny, I'd been contemplating whether I should post or not on the thread. You must be a mind reader Humbled and that's really kind of you.

Sorry to hear about the PF. Some shoes are very aggravating unfortunately. I remember reading an article analysing the differences between the feet of people wearing no shoes, poor shoes or complex structural shoes. Funnily enough the no shoes category came out as having the best feet - although I fear this isn't practical for any of us, especially having grown up wearing shoes.

Nice to see a new person posting (hello Miss Tenacity).

As for me, some good news in that my back is feeling a lot better now. My knee is still painful almost constantly and I wish there was some way I could anaesthetise it, nothing seems to work and it is so frustrating. At night after a few hours it makes me feel like headbutting the walls.

I have so much free time now - it's really, really weird.

I like the new title, although I want all of us to be in the "recovered" category sometime!

Humbled - sorry to hear about the PF aggravated by the shoe. I've done the same thing myself. It is amazing what torture heels can be!

NLS - good job on the win, even if it wasn't a great-feeling one. I'd love to win something sometime!

Darkwave - double yay on the Achilles! I love when I can run and not think about anything but running.

Track Chick - I hope you can find some relief somewhere for the knee.That constant pain has to be so tiring. Maybe acupuncture or some kind of alternative medicine might be worth a look?

RLAG - Yay for taper. I hope you will take some well-deserved rest after what is sure to be a big PR.

Miss Tenacity - welcome! I think we seem to have very similar goals. I really want to break 1:30 in the half this year (or early next year). I am just coming back from a stress fracture and looking forward to building up the miles.

AZ - I think biking is a great workout and you may find that you're enjoying your runs more when you are running. NLS's advice sounds good!

Sarah - hope you feel better. I think rest will help.

Well, my first triathlon was (literally and figuratively) a bust. I made it through the swim and then got a flat tire 4 miles out from the end of the bike session. It was bending the rim, so I couldn't ride the bike, and my bike shoes with clips didn't seem to be very good for running alongside the bike and pushing it in. i felt hobbled in those shoes just walking 3/4 of a mile to get an officer to radio the sag wagon! I am so sad I didn't get to complete it and do the running part, which was the only part I can do fairly well! I don't feel like doing another one because I just want to focus on running now, but I may jump in one in June if I do some swimming on my off days. Getting up at 4:00 am to travel to the race, using 1/2 tank of gas, and spending $50 for aobut 20 minutes' worth of activity didn't leave me in too great a mood. Oh, well. I did get 30 miles in this week and plan to run 40 this week. Have a good week, all!

OS -Happytrails, I hope you will post again. I saw your post pretty late and didn't have any advice for someone who runs so fast,but I was at Pittsburgh and would love to know if I saw you at the finish! I did the half and then saw all the top-placing women as I was waiting for my husband. I liked the race!

Thanks for the welcomes, everyone. I look forward to virtually training with all of you over the coming months.

I have a few questions but first I'll go over my basic "current history".

I've been running for 22 years, only year round the last 6 or so. Started in Cross Country, then after college skipped over all road racing and got sucked into trail ultras. Did those for 7 years, mostly in the Southwest and nearly all in the mountains, from 50K to 100m.

Then I started wondering what I could get my body to do, speedwise, if I wasn't plodding along on trails so much. Dropped ultras like a hot potato and started on my 5K PR, set that at 20:44 2 years ago (but didn't beat my goal of 20:00) and turned to marathons . . . 'cuz I've always preferred either trail or distance - 5K on a track was pretty heinous.

After a bout of achilles tendinosis in spring 07 I did my first at San Francisco and qualified for Boston, which I ran in 08. Despite my "intentions", those are my two marathons so far - I ended up doing 5 half-marathons both because they replaced marathons I didn't think I was ready for, and I like the distance.

However, I still want to see what I've got for 42K . . . I think. I believe my body could be pushed to do 3 hours, but I think it would be seriously difficult and I'd be flirting with injury (which I bat eyelashes at any time I get above 45mpw).

So, for now, I jumped into Pikes on a lark and as a nod to my mountainous history, with plans to run at least 2 more halfs this year and perhaps California International to crack 3:30 (likely 3:20 if training is going well).

Last 12 weeks of mileage is:

26,

25 (raced half-marathon),

8,

21,

28,

20,

19,

27,

24,

22 (raced half-marathon, set PR),

18 ("raced" 10K),

21.

This is usually 3 runs, two short and one long. Many weeks have one or two hard pool workouts, and *every* week has 6-8 hours of hot yoga.

I think I should jump my miles up FAST, and I'm proposing that I do so by doing 2 weeks high, one week low for a few cycles. For example, the next three weeks do 35,40,20. Then see how I feel and try 40,45+,30. And on. Basically some serious overload/recovery.

So.... that was a long post. :-)

i find it continuously interesting how close the abilities are of many of us here, regardless of age, mpw, etc. (although of course there are some extra-speedy women as well as those unfortunately hampered or sidelined by injury). it seems as though sub-20, 1:30, 3:15/20 are pretty common goal times among us.

sounds like the yoga keeps you strong, but as a remediated ultra runner you know that you'll need time on your feet for pikes peak. for reference, i've run a couple of tame trail marathons in roughly 4 hrs, quite a few 50Ks in 4:40-4:50, a couple of trail 50 milers in 8 hrs, and the PPM took me six hours (4 up, 2 down), so plan your long runs accordingly and let yourself slip into your old trail-plodding mode at least a couple of times. unless there's a lot of snow up top, you should be fine in either marathon race shoes or light trail runners (i personally swear by NB 790s, albeit with a replacement insole from a normal shoe; in last year's conditions, the people who schlepped yaktrax up with them were definitely happy campers in the icy slop above treeline). i really enjoyed the pikes peak race: the view that year above treeline in 2007 was awesome, and the organization excellent (the only part that sucked was the final steep downhill mile on pavement). the main thing i would add to my training that i didn't have that year was long hill (mile or more) repeats, both up and down, but particularly up, as that was clearly my weakness. it's hard to say how much my struggle was due to elevation gain vs. absolute altitude, although, unlike many others, i never felt sick up top. still, 14K' is a whole different ball game than 10K' or 11K'.

Miss T. -- I'm glad I managed to drag you over here. Welcome!

Just a peanut gallery comment on your mileage increase plan. If you've been running +/-25 mpw for awhile AND you tend to flirt with injury when you go above 45, I'd be a little more conservative with your mileage plans.

Going from 20 to 40 in two weeks is, well, doubling your mileage your mileage in two weeks. Not a great idea, generally. I did that for my first marathon and ended up training with shinsplints for four months. I'm still shocked that I didn't end up with a stress fracture, considering that all my runs are on asphalt.

Might I suggest something like this as an alternative? I prefer the "jump and hold for a few weeks" approach to the "jump up every week" method.

25

30

30

28

33

33

30

35

35

32

38

38

35

40

40

38

45

45

That gets you up to 45mpw in just six weeks, which is still pretty agressive. Then what you might do is hold things at 45 while you focus on specificity training for Pike's Peak. If you manage to do all that and remain injury free, then you might try another conservative mileage increase for your next marathon training cycle.

Speaking of which, let me know if you do CIM this year. I've booked the flights and registered. So I guess I'm committed. :)

Hey everyone!

Needless to say, I am doing MUCH better this week. I found out the reason I was so tired was because of all the lack of sleep I was getting (it's amazing how an extra half hour helps) and the fact that my iron levels were low (which isn't good with the whole heart ordeal I have).

My husband is getting into triathalons again, which means I will be swimming more and biking..as supplemental training. ;) I spent all day Saturday chasing my neighbor's dogs around the desert (I was puppy sitting and they got out). Mind you, it was 100+ degrees and I ran all around the barren land on base looking for them for an hour and a half. Needless to say, I found them and took Sunday off.

AZRunning - My husband got hurt in his final collegiate season way-back-when. He biked everyday (if not twice). He came back and picked up running after months on the bike and did really well and ended up PRing. :) I bike every now and again. The saying is every 3-4 miles you bike is like one mile running. Hopefully that helps out. If you need any other info, I can always ask my hubby. He knows more than I do about biking.

I hope all you mother's had a great mother's day!

Keep up the good running!! I love reading about it.

Hey Sticky and all, love that name by the way, it makes me smile :O) Found out one of the reasons I have been dragging is my Serum Ferritin (stored iron) is well below normal at 12... again! I had issues with this awhile back and thought once I got up to the normal range all was well but stopped taking just iron! Sooooo, needless to say I went out and purchased 2 kinds of iron this afternoon. The normal range for a female distance runner is between 30 and 40 some gals are even higher.

At least I know why my legs feel like they weigh a ton out running they are oxygen deprived so need to remedy that.

Great to see the new people on board, very nice and welcome.

Now my goal is to race a 5km early June in Florida, it was my first road race ever 28 yrs ago, hope my iron stores are beefed up by then.

I did manage 8 miles today all at sub 8s so yay!

Hi all and welcome Ms. T :) (love the name). I like the new thread name too...fits all of us!!! Happy belated Mother's day to all mom's, gma's out there :)

Still recovering from Boston. Last week I did a little speed and was surprised at how quickly I got tired...I know, I'm NOT young *haha*

Good luck to all getting ready to race and a quick recovery to those who are sidelined.

Only 45 for the week and most VERY EASY :)