Everyone quiet on Dathan??

You guys are all so convinced that Ritz will make the Olympics in 2004 and hence not run cross that year! Who knows where Kennedy, Goucher, Lane, Torres, Abdi, Meb, Pepper, random guys like Nick Rogers or someone like Hauser may be at that time. There are so many guys out there, its not a lock that Ritz would make the team. Just another thing to consider when deciding whether to redshirt him now or not.

what has goucher, lane, kennedy, hauser, or rogers shown us over the last year. ritz, though, ran 13:27 as a freshman, and was 24th in world cross. he absolutely broke hauser, who doesnt run well in races, just races in which stanford guys can shield him for 90% of the race. culpepper may move to the marathon. what gives us any reason to doubt ritz making the olympic team with meb and abdi.

yeah webb is through. He should of never turned pro. So much for the savior of america's middle distance

even if he runs at nationals he will still be an all-american. His base before he got hurt is good enough for him to ride off it for at least a month.

Personally, I think Colorado's team is overrated. Their depth for a TOP TEAM is unbelievably bad. J.Torres and a healthy Ritz are incredible, Ed Torres is a tremendous 3rd runner and Slattery is a good 4th runner...but not as good as whoever Stanford's 4th runner will be.

...and we all know how good Colorado's 5th runner is....

...and we also know someone will step up if a top 5'er has a bad race....

If Ritz does not run, then Stanford will have at least 6 runners finish ahead or within 10 places of Colorado's 3rd runner.

I think you're underestimating Slattery. He was in the high teens last year at NCs coming off an injury. Healthy, he might have been low teens at least. He could beat anyone on Stanford on a good day. Yes, he could also do like you predicted, but no way is that a given.

Ladies and Gentlemen we still have a month or so until Nationals. I hear people talking about how Ed and Slatery aren't running as fast as they can be the 5 and 6 guys not up there yet. Colorado is a team of peaking. Mark Wetmore openly admits to using his version of Lydiard's system. Lydiard was the ultimate peak coach. Look at guys like Snell and Viren. Snell was an unknown and won the Olympics. Everyone always underestimated Viren. Sure, they might not run awesome now but look at what happens in a month. Those guys up in Boulder are going to bust out like no one's business. If you go to Running with the Buffalos or just in previous years' differences between PreNats 8k and the 8k split in Nationals you'll see an improvement by almost everyone. I see Torres winning the thing. He's the most underrated runner in the country. Dathan is a top ten. I mean hell, if Allen Webb can finish 11th in Cross Country Nats Ritz can pull of a 10, 9, or 8. Ed And Slatery, they're the most important runners for Colorado. They need top 20 and most likely top 15 from both of them. And then, what about 5? Billy Nelson? John Severy? One of the other Freshman? Whoever it is, it'll be an unkown, it'll be someone no one expected to run that fast, either a walkon or someone like Nelson who was basically dropped off of everyone's charts last year after he didn't win Foot Lockers. Remember that last year Sean Smith was Colorado's 5th guy and he finished a respectable 56th overall. They need someone to Step up for all american honors and they'll be alright. In TEAM scoring Jorge was first Ritz was 3rd, Ed was 13, Slatery was 26, and Smith was 47...90 pts. This year in TEAM scoring if they finish in these spots as the worst case scenario...jorge 1, Ritz 10, Ed and Slattery 14 and 15, fifth runner 50 it adds up to be...90 points. Bring ritz back watch out for the peak.

Word in Boulder yesterday (I was there for a high school meet) is that Dathan has suffered a set back. He ran for 3-4 days then felt pain again in his leg. He had been cleared by a doctor to run, but now has not run in a couple of days and the comeback might be over.

i don't know about the word in Boulder, but he was out jogging on the course a few hours before the race started at pre-nats at the same time i was...

giffypop, what college are you at? longtime no see on the dyestat boards

Ritz is a fool! What's wrong with him?! You've got to let those kind of injuries heal. The time recommended to heal a stress fracture is at bare minimum, 6 weeks- that's BARE minimum. I would say 10 weeks is more ideal for someone running at such high intensity- i.e. 100 mile weeks, etc. Until a proper bone collar/callus has formed around the fractured site, the bone is still extremely weak. Any further damage i.e. stress to the area before that calcified collar forms actually sets a person back to pretty close to ground zero. Incidentally, m5000, as an MD and a former collegiate miler, be assured that I know what I'm talking about- in both the respects of your aforementioned statement.

Super Swede,

Were you present for Ritz's bone scan? I guess you know the exact local, extent and severity of his stress fracture. Its not uncommon for people to come back this early from stress fractures. Unless you are on the "inside" and know everything about his injury, you can't make any kind of legitimate statement on whether or not he is coming back. If you are an MD, I would think you would not be making broad statements about injuries you know nothing about. Do you diagnose over the internet also?

exactly what I'm thinking! I know Kimani got 4th his sophomore year after only starting running in October. First race was in November that year I think. Ritz can be top 10 if he's able to do any mileage this month!

A stress fracture is a stress fracture. There are no "degrees" of stress fractures. In addition, a bone scan is nothing more than a radioactive uptake to an area where bone formation and the healing process is taking place. To reiterate, there are no "degrees". Therefore, a stress fracture is a stress fracture. Period. Hence, once diagnosed, all stress fractures are treated the SAME. From this, one can surmise that a person need not be present during the scan or see the films to treat...hope you will get YOUR facts straight before you make negative statements in the future- certainly don't mean to get an argument going, nor do I mean any offense to you- just thought the facts should be laid out in a sane rebuttle. It is highly UNWISE for Ritz to push an injury such as this (especially in the area where his is allegedly located). Has no one learned anything from Goucher's injuries? Why encourage one of America's bright and future (hopefully) stars into ruining the rest of his career over a national meet?! He needs to let it heal COMPLETELY and not risk his future success.

haha. Yea there are different "degrees" of stress fractures. Not all stress fractures are the same.

I had a stress fracture over 20 years ago as a high school senior, and sportsmed was only a budding profession at the time, certainly nowhere near as developed as now. I began running again tentatively after 3 weeks of cycling, and running for real after 4-5. Could have raced after about 7, but it was the end of the year and did not matter.

Applying this to Swede's comments it matches up fairly closely, although I'm sure it could go slightly better nowadays. Look at the calender:

>Ritz was diagnosed around Sept 2

>It's now 10-19-02, it's already been over six weeks

>Nat's is 11-25-02, still over a month away

From this, it's quite possible bordering on probable Ritz will run. I'm sure he's been able to employ a variety of cross training methods to stay fit, such as pool running, cycling, etc... surely enough for a talented runner to come back from quickly. It's going to be more of a question of whether he wants to burn a season of eligibilty on one race where he might be just a little off top form, or save it for next year. The flip side is with the other top guys graduating they certainly have a much better shot at the team title this year than next. I think he'll vote for the team and run, so long as the healing has been going as planned.

Man, once you get dx'ed with a stress fracture, they are all treated the same at baseline- REST. You can't tell how bad a fracture is- plain radiographic films and bone scans show no differences in cracks, etc. Obviously, a fracture in the back or pelvis is exceedingly worse than one say, in the shin because those areas are under so much more stress for even everyday activities, let alone hammering a ten miler. There are NO DEGREES in baseline treatment. I don't think I made that clear in my previous post. So as not to throw any black pearls out there, I just confirmed this with one of my buddies trapped here at the hospital on call- granted, I'm only a general surgeon, but he is an orthopedic surgeon. Trust me, this is the way it works. Best of luck to Ritz. Sincerely hope he succeeds...again, not trying to fight anyone or anything, just need to defend my position. Gotta go.

REST from running yes, but knowing his internal drive and determination I think he was still pushing himself in the pool and with other non-impact cross training during these six weeks.

Remember, he ran 23:05 for 5 miles just before the injury. he takes 6 weeks (or maybe a little less, who knows what he really did) of heavy cross training and then gets running again. With approximately 5 weeks of running I can see him getting top 30 without too much trouble.

Runner - approximate points scored

JTorres - 1 (or 2)

ETorres - ~10

SSlattery - ~10

DRitzenhein - ~30 (fairly conservative)

Anyone else - ~50

That puts them in the thick of things. I don't think they will win, but it is not out of the question. Both stanford and arkansas should beat them, but who knows, on any given day...

Stress fractures generally have a window of 4 to 6 weeks to heal. The femur is a difficult bone to heal. As one of the other posters pointed out it has been at least six weeks since the diagnosis. There are no tests to competely and accurately determine how well you are healed. A CT scan and an MRI will often produce false positives.

Runners should go based on their symptoms or lack of symptoms in determining when they should run.

I would also be shocked if Ritz did not have the use of a bone stimulator. This can speed the healing process and has been shown in several studies that stress fractures will heal faster when bone stim is used. One good study off the top of my head is by Bennazzo et al if Super Swede (or anyone else) wants to run a lit search.

I see no reason why Ritz can't be back soon.

Brian