All these 800's and indoor miles. Why isnt he running 5k's and 10k's. Did he not look at Sam's results these past weekends...I hope they know what they are doing...
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Smart not smart? 800 at stanford...
All these 800's and indoor miles. Why isnt he running 5k's and 10k's. Did he not look at Sam's results these past weekends...I hope they know what they are doing... -
dododado wrote:
Smart not smart? 800 at stanford...
All these 800's and indoor miles. Why isnt he running 5k's and 10k's. Did he not look at Sam's results these past weekends...I hope they know what they are doing...
You are not very smart -
dododado wrote:
Smart not smart? 800 at stanford...
All these 800's and indoor miles. Why isnt he running 5k's and 10k's. Did he not look at Sam's results these past weekends...I hope they know what they are doing...
Running fast 5's and 10's early in the season doesn't accomplish much. He's ready to run as fast as Chelanga on Chelanga's best day and is doing shorter stuff to give him his best shot come Worlds this August.
Smart. -
my question... why is he flying to stanford to do it? doesn't the oregon track club live in eugene? don't they have some 800 runners rupp could run with if he really wanted to? other people fly to stanford for the fast 10k. rupp runs his 10k's at home then flies for fast 800s.
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extremeley smart, perhaps genious. time will tell.
rupp put in 5 years of cranking major strength/endurance races and racing through 27:33 like performances on 90+ mile weeks. then he finally takes a few breaks in training, lets all the build up settle in and starts adding speedwork. now he's super strong and has exhibited some really great speed as well as closing speed at the end of races.
it's a reverse approach to what most coaches and athletes do, trying to race short distances for as long as possible and then move up in distances over time.
if rupp can get into 1:47 with his endurance/strength capacity he is going to be a helluva runner and those 13:00/27:00 barriers start to look very doable. and a shot at an international championship medal begins to look more likely. -
Very intelligent post. I'd say you're right on. Also, he is probably working up to the 4xmile on May 9 in Eugene. Working on his turnover.
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Running and 800 and one or two 1500/mile races in the middle of the indoor season worked well for him, so why not do the same thing outdoors?
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I'm sure his goal is to try to complete at the World 10,000. That will require closing in 1:55-58.
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Montesquieu wrote:
I'm sure his goal is to try to complete at the World 10,000. That will require closing in 1:55-58.
HAHAHA
Yes he may be working on it to close in 1:55 and he may close in 1:55 but trust me...
He will be no where near the leaders when it comes time to close, at all... -
well, you may be right, but then again...
if rupp is in 27:00-27:10 shape and is actually peaking for that race, what makes you think he wouldn't be around them with a couple laps to go?
http://www.iaaf.org/history/wch/season=2005/eventcode=3365/results/bydiscipline/disctype=4/sex=M/discCode=10K/combCode=hash/roundCode=f/results.html#detM_10K_hash_f
http://osaka2007.iaaf.org/results/gender=M/discipline=10K/combCode=hash/roundCode=f/result.html
10K results are partway down this page:
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/athens2004/track_field/results?day=20
I guess my point is, the top couple are probably on about 27:15-27:20 pace with 1K to go and then pick it up and kick hard to get down to the 27:05-27:10 range. Bronze is sometimes in the 27:20 range.
So again, if Rupp is capable of running 27:00 or 27:10 and has 1:47-1:48 speed (and 1:55 or better closing speed) is it completely absurd to think he can run at 27:20 pace and have something left over the last few laps? nobody said gold, but bronze is sometimes 15 seconds off from gold. -
The guy has the world standards already. He is focusing on the areas he needs to make himself more competative with the worlds best. They guy knows what he is doing.
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perspectivation wrote:
well, you may be right, but then again...
if rupp is in 27:00-27:10 shape and is actually peaking for that race, what makes you think he wouldn't be around them with a couple laps to go?
http://www.iaaf.org/history/wch/season=2005/eventcode=3365/results/bydiscipline/disctype=4/sex=M/discCode=10K/combCode=hash/roundCode=f/results.html#detM_10K_hash_f
http://osaka2007.iaaf.org/results/gender=M/discipline=10K/combCode=hash/roundCode=f/result.html
10K results are partway down this page:
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/athens2004/track_field/results?day=20
I guess my point is, the top couple are probably on about 27:15-27:20 pace with 1K to go and then pick it up and kick hard to get down to the 27:05-27:10 range. Bronze is sometimes in the 27:20 range.
So again, if Rupp is capable of running 27:00 or 27:10 and has 1:47-1:48 speed (and 1:55 or better closing speed) is it completely absurd to think he can run at 27:20 pace and have something left over the last few laps? nobody said gold, but bronze is sometimes 15 seconds off from gold.
27:00 range. What gives you that idea?!
He hasn't done anything to show us that yet. He has been running 800's? Maybe for the 5k that is ok. But for the 10k. What is running a fast 800 going to do. Now the Mile. There you go. That is where you need to run if you want to run shorter for the 10k. This 800 stuff is ridiculous.
I bet sam is working harder. I love rupp...But come on -
yep, he clearly has no idea. his 13:18 where he dropped sam (who was barely holding on to the pace which galen was comfortable with) indoors doesn't indicate much. it's just a 12 second PR from the same year he ran 27:33, and it was mid indoor season. 6 miles of 30-40 drill last (almost every split UNDER pace)which was over a mile longer than any oregon (except Pre who went 5 miles) runner in history (including centrowitz who still holds the ACR in the 5K). Rupp did that workout alone, the Oregon crews in the past did the workout as a group sharing pace and pushing eachother.
Rupp was beating luke puskedra by a minute over 8K and 10K cross. Galen will be peaking for this summer. If he gets in a fast race he will aiming to smack down the AR. He is MUCH, MUCH better than Meb was when Meb set that mark.
He is not there right now because he just got back into the swing of things, this summer he'll be ready.
Let me ask you this, what do you really think Rupp is going to be running this summer? He's already a minimum of 12 seconds faster over 5K from two years ago. That's from a mid indoors season mark. Most likely he's 10 seconds or faster than that outdoors in a Euro race. You think he's only 12-15 seconds faster from 2 years ago over 10K? He was probably 45-60 seconds better over 8K-10K cross last fall than he was in 2006.
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Place TmPl No. Name Cl School 5ksplit 8ksplit Finish
===== ==== ==== ===================== == ============================ ======= ======= =======
1 1 121 Josh Rohatinsky SR BYU 15:19 24:33 30:44.9
2 2 576 Neftalem Araia SR Stanford 15:19 24:33 30:52.6
3 562 Jess Baumgartner JR Southern Utah 15:19 24:34 30:53.2
4 454 Lopez Lomong SO Northern Arizona 15:19 24:34 30:59.8
5 3 548 Martin Fagan SR Providence 15:19 24:35 31:01.0
6 4 492 Galen Rupp SO Oregon 15:19 24:42 31:03.0
it may seem weird that Rupp seems suddenly at this level, but it's mostly because he didn't get in any time trialed races last year, and his biggest jump seems to be since he took his rest after the olympics. watching him race cross regionals last year it was pretty clear he had made a substantial jump. how do you make a substantial fitness jump over cross country for 10K, but not on the track? rupp is a great track runner.
fyi, i said 27:00-27:10 range. lastly i don't think there is anyway sam can work harder than galen. he runs 90-100 fast miles a week (yes some guys do run high but slower mileage), with enourmous workouts and often pool/underwater treadmill &/or alterG running that doesn't count into the mileage. then there is the weights, plyos etc. it's pretty hard to fit anything more in.
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come on buddy,,. wrote:
27:00 range. What gives you that idea?!
He hasn't done anything to show us that yet. He has been running 800's? Maybe for the 5k that is ok. But for the 10k. What is running a fast 800 going to do. Now the Mile. There you go. That is where you need to run if you want to run shorter for the 10k. This 800 stuff is ridiculous.
I bet sam is working harder. I love rupp...But come on -
"It's pretty hard to fit anymore in"
That's what she said. -
perspectivation wrote:
If he gets in a fast race he will aiming to smack down the AR. He is MUCH, MUCH better than Meb was when Meb set that mark....
.... he is going to be a helluva runner and those 13:00/27:00 barriers start to look very doable. .
Only one non -african in HISTORY has broken 27:10. And you seem almost certain that Rupp will easily do it. "MUCH, MUCH better than Meb" means MUCH MUCH better than 27:13. You make it seem like 27:05 should be a walk in the park for Rupp. So you think he will become the fastest non-african whoever lived with ease this summer? That's a pretty bold statement. -
Much Much better? Olympic silver medalist, give him some respect...
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You either don't pay attention to his racing schedule and results or you don't see the pattern.
In early winter, Rupp ran an 800m-mile double indoors. This was how he started off his indoor season. After that he ran some longer distances.
He repeated this cycle a second time, starting with an 800m race again, then running a mile race, then a 3000m race, and then a 5000m race. In this second cycle, he ran 1:49, 3:57, 7:44, and 13:18 for the AR. All were PR's for him, indoor and outdoor. Simply amazing.
Schumacher and other coaches have used similar approaches to training their athletes. When Solisnky ran his first European circuit right out of college, Schumacher had him run a 1500m one week, another 1500m the next week, then a 3000m the following week, and finally a 5000m the week after that. His times were 3:39, 3:37, 7:36.9, and 13:12. Pretty good huh?
So what you should be noticing now is that these coaches focus more on the anearobic threshold first and then have their athletes run the longer distances, because, in theory, if you can run 4 laps in 59 seconds per lap, imagine how much easier it would feel to run 61 second laps for 7.5 laps, or 63 second laps for 12.5 laps? This isn't anyting entirely new, but it is slightly new to Rupp's training schedule, and they're obviously having success with it. It also draws upon the training theories developed by Jack Daniels, Ph.D.
So you ask why is Rupp running in the "fastest"(1st) 800m heat at the Payton Cardinal Invitation. That's somewhat a legitimate question, simply by looking at the company he is running in: Prince Mumba, Matt Scherer(1:45 the other weekend), and other national caliber 800m runners. Well, Galen Rupp isn't known as nor has run anything near national caliber 800m times, right? He ran 1:49 indoors this past winter though, but that's not NATIONAL caliber, right? Well, his first 800m race was run in 1:51. His second 800m was ran in 1:49, but that was also over 2 months ago. My guess is, since then, his anaerobic threshold has continued to improve, and he may be in as much as 1:47 shape right now, but probably more like 1:48. We are talking about the same athlete who did 24 x 400m of 30/40 during cross country season. And Rupp has surpised us before. The real question though is, why is Rupp doing this?
Well he's obivously not trying to plan blowing his load in goddamn earlyass May! Yeah, he could run the 10k and maybe come close to setting an American Record, although I bet he would come close but can't at this point.
I bet he will, however, be able to set an AR in the 10k later this track season, *closer to when the competition is more important*. Look, Rupp already has his qualifying standard for the World Championship Trials. He doesn't need to waste a 10k effort now, this early in the season, because in the long run what will be more important is how well he can chase down or outkick those crazy efficient African runners come world champs time.
Look at runners like Kenenisa Bekele, who can run the last 800m of a 27:00-paced 10k in close to 1:52. If Rupp is going to hope to compete against runners like that, and there are a few like that, he is going to have to have the speed and anaerobic threshold to run that fast that hard at the end of a race that fast paced. Rupp's aerobic threshold WILL get there. The most limiting factor in his progress has been his speed. Remember how many times he attempted to break 4:00 in the mile last year, and never did? Well now they've figured out the formula for it and it's working. Just think if Ritzenhein had been able to tap into the same training that Rupp is but without injuring himself. He probably wouldn't be running 2:10:00 marathons on the fastest stage in the world right now. And he probably would've broken 13:10 a long time ago.
The bottom line is, if Rupp runs the 800m at Stanford, it's because it's part of the cycle his coaches have developed for his peaking development for later this summer. And I'd say it's hard to argue against seeing how it's already been working out for him. Besides, he already has the A standard for 5k and 10k. What will running another one of those races achieve other than a faster time which him and his coaches now he will be able to run faster than later in the season? I think it's smart, patient planning, and I can't wait to see what happens. -
dododado wrote:
Smart not smart? 800 at stanford...
All these 800's and indoor miles. Why isnt he running 5k's and 10k's. Did he not look at Sam's results these past weekends...I hope they know what they are doing...
I like how anytime someone runs a fast time, any other past achievements go out the window.
Do you not remember nationals? Were you not around for Rupps domination?
He seems to be on a very good track, and at this point there doesn't seem to be any reason to doubt his progress or training plan. -
yea yea yea..
But 800m is not speed. You have to be fast to run a good 800. But running 800's alone will not make you fast.
To race a good 800m, you have to taper off, run specific sessions etc all of which are not conducive to running fast at 10,000m.
If you race a 800m off 10,000m training what does it do? It brings your form up, it brings you into better fitness. This is not speed. It is more specific race condition.
I would guess that Rupp has his sights set on a big race in the next 3-4 weeks and is using this 800 to point jis form towards that.
Speed training is 60m, 80m, 90m, 120m, 150m. Pure speed.
The reason why people aren't running 1.55 with Kenny at the end of a 10km isn't cause they can't run 1.55, or 1.47 for that matter. Its cause they can't get to 2 laps to go with anthing like what KB has left in the tank.
That is strength + Fitness. Not speed. -
fed-ex wrote:
That is strength + Fitness. Not speed.
Glad you aren't my / Rupp's coach!
