Women's training thread - week of 4/11/09

RLAG -- Awesome Friday workout and long run. You are putting in incredible mileage. Right before I dove into these threads, I decided to do Pfitz's 70+ plan over the summer, so I guess I'll be right there with you -- I'll probably start right around when you run your race. Whee!

Question -- how do you have your watch set to display pace? I can only stay sane by setting it for "avg lap," which works if you have it set to autolap every mile or so. I wish the immediate pace function was more accurate, but since it can confuse the crap out of you, the average seems to work better for me. I had it set for just "pace" while doing two mile intervals one week ... It kept reading 8:20 even though I knew I was doing more like 6:30 -- so I got paranoid and picked it up and ran like 6:10. Stupid thing.

It's been happy taper week in my world, just 45 miles this past week. Did that awesome 18 miler last Sunday, rest of the week was short and easy.

Tuesday though, I did 3x1600 with 60 seconds rest. I was supposed to hit LT pace, 6:35, but kept going to fast -- hence the positive splits: 6:27, 6:31, 6:33.

Just 8 miles yesterday, decided to do the first 4 miles easy then cut backs on the last four down to race pace. 7:34, 7:38, 7:41, 7:29, 7:20, 7:20, 7:24, 7:08. Everything feels okay! That was through a really hilly loop, too, with about 1100 feet of gain.

One week to go! How's everyone else?

Hi All-

Glad to see the thread here! RLAG - your weekly mileage is inspiring. I am sure you will see the results in 7 weeks. It's especially impressive with this cold, crappy winter we had! Tfltft - sounds like you are in great shape for Boston. Are you looking for 3:10 or something around there? Your workout paces sound really good. My goal is 3:10 someday.

Well, I'm out of the teens in MPW! Got to 20 MPW this week with a 9-mile "long run" at 8:00-8:10 pace. I was happy with that since I am still running every other day for 3 runs/week and the pace has been mor elike 9:00. I am going to do one more week of 3 days and then add a day and try to build back up. I am thinking I can get to a 13-mile long run by May 3rd so I can do the Pittsburgh half as my long run while my husband does the full. He is really rounding into shape over the last couple weeks and I'm thinking he is in PR shape. I also had a good bike ride and managed to do pretty well with the clips, and a good swim. It helped to have my triathlete friend ride along with me and cpoach me on the bike clips. I don't see my self ever wanting to ne a triathlete, but I will try this one sprint one in May. Our Passover meal was a lot of fun and good food.

I am very excited and nervous to start training for Chicago. I want to max out in the mid-80's,and that seems daunting with my 20 MPW right now, but we have a goodgroup of people all signed up so having a little training group will be very helpful. Hopefully once I add some more days to my running I can ramp up to the 50's in May and be on track, and hopefully my pace will improve as a result. It is great to be writing about running again! Have a good week,all!

Doh! Make that week of 4/12/09. Not enough caffeine...

Too bad we can't change thread titles. The perfectionist in me is very bothered by this.

I feel you, RLAG! I was typing while someone was talking to me, and my previous post shows it!

Question -- how do you have your watch set to display pace?

Like you, I set it to average lap (and have 1 mile autolap turned on). Current pace, is, as you say, is often all over the place. But I display it on the same screen (I used a Garmin 305) just to see what it's doing.

I have my screens set up like so:

Screen 1: Current HR, Avg HR, Time of Day

Screen 2 - Focus is on current lap: Lap Pace, Pace, Lap Distance, Lap Time

Screen 3 - Focus is on entire run: Time, Distance, Avg Pace

About the only time I change things is when doing intervals on the track. Then I change units to meters and set up one screen like so:

Lap Distance, Lap Time, Lap Pace

Nice job on the intervals and cutdown run! What's your goal time for Boston?

WATC, congratulations on making it out of the mileage teens. You sound like you're being smart (meaning conservative) about introducing miles again. I hope this keeps you out of the doctor's office.

tfltft -- I used the 70+ Pfitz schedule for my third marathon, and that was my most successful (although not my fastest) race of the four I've done so far in terms of being prepared and putting in a good performance.

But I recently got Volume 2 of Advanced Marathoning out of curiosity and noticed that the schedules are completely different. I'm not sure I could do them, actually, they're so aggressive. So I can recommend the 70+ plan from Volume 1, but I've got no experience with the Volume 2 version.

One more note on watch settings, and then I have to be a responsible adult and get to work...

If you're running a course with lots of terrain variations (like, um, Boston, for example), the lap-to-lap variations in pacing may drive you crazy. You run one mile a few seconds off pace, then go crazy trying to make up time in the next one, which can be deadly in a marathon.

When I race in Central Park (which is very hilly), I typically set autolap to 3 miles, which really smooths the average pace out.

Long time lurker, first time poster :) I like this thread, so I thought I would join.

RLAG--WOW! Is all I can say with your mileage. You should have a great time! Love the web page too!

I'm doing Boston too. It's always a challening course, so who knows what it shall bring. I like the 3 mile idea! It can drive one crazy watching the pace on that course (go from 6:30 to 7-something, etc...); I think I'm going to take that idea and go with it! Thanks :)

Have a great week and wil see some in Boston. Good luck tfltft!

it's so much fun to be reading about all the marathon buildups taking place -- and so much fun to be running trails instead! more power to you ambitious sorts, good luck at boston tfltft, and congrats to you, WATC, for setting your sights both realistically and high for the coming weeks and months.

i had a lovely birthday morning finishing second woman, first masters at a very nicely organized trail race (15K; 1:09:32). it was mostly twisty/turny single track with a good mix of short ups, downs, and flats, which made use of nearly every square inch of the park in which it took place without retracing any section of trail for the 5K distance (three-peated for 15K). following the foot race, the same course was to be used for a mountain bike race. i admit to being very timid on my mtn bike, but i just can't imagine trying to race over that terrain on two wheels.

last week was low mileage (just over 50), what with two races (10K roads, which beat me up a bit; 15K trails, which left me feeling frisky) and traveling to and from the midwest, but this coming week should be better, with a plan for 20 miles easy on trails wed and a 25K trail race sunday. we're expecting dry conditions all week, which should make for a nice course instead of what could otherwise be a slopfest. looking forward to it.

i'll add my concurrence with using average one-mile lap time on my garmin; otherwise it's too erratic (i like that idea of three-mile smoothing). when i use the GPS these days, which is very rarely, it's just to keep me from starting too fast in a long road race. largely, i just strap my old 201 to the handlebar of my road bike and watch the miles tick away while amusing myself with elevation changes.

Welcome to you Female Master :o) and here's to a swift Boston for you.

Sounds like people are enjoying the frisky feeling of Spring and building up to marathons etc excellent :O)

I still enjoy running sans watch or garmin on some runs to remind me not to get enslaved to pace but just keep it basic and enjoyable, of course I know pace work and discipline have their place.

Lower mileage this week, not particularly intentionally, just trying to listen to my body as stress levels have been over the top lately.

The good thing is it can only get better from here.

All the Best to the BostonBound speedsters, I am sure we will all be rooting for you :O)

Have a wonderful week one and all!

Happy Birthday NLS!

RLAG, as usual, I am inspired. I am also inspired to start a blog of my own. Maybe after I run this marathon - right now I barely have time (or energy) to get my work done and eat.

tfltft -- I am having similar pacing issues, I just can't seem to find MP. It is such an-in-between pace.

I had a very good week. My highest mileage ever, 81 miles. I was sick last Sunday (my usual long run day), so I did my usual Tuesday run instead (12 miles AM, 5 PM, slow). Then on Tuesday: 20 miles with last 8 @ MP?? (it ended up being 7:35 pace, most of them in the 7:30 range). The only ones at MP (about 7:50 were the first 2!!). So then I tried again on Thursday with a shorter run (13 miles) with 8 miles again at 7:34 pace. I was a little disappointed ... mainly because this was such a weird pace to be running, not hard enough to be a tempo run, or even a 1/2 marathon pace run, but certainly too fast for a MP run!! I was supposed to do another Yasso 800 this week, but I talked my coach into another MP run instead, I will find 7:50 pace!!

I picked my race this week: EUGENE, May 3rd. I was debating on Newport on May 16th, but I have to tell you, I am getting a little tired of living and breathing this training! I am terrified about getting sick, injured, etc! I think the sooner I get this race done the better I will be ;-). Does anyone else get that way? I think I am ready, I just have to do it!

Since this is my first marathon I am actually planning on running very conservatively. I think I will hang with the 3:30 pace group through at least 16 miles ... if I can, I will try to finish stronger/faster. I think I am in 3:25/3:26 shape, but I would rather finish strong and enjoy the experience - and get useful information about the whole marathon thing ...

Having run 15 marathons in my career I would say that finishing strong is a worthy goal. Many people will tell you the race begins at 20 and I would always tell myself at that point in the race that I had 10km left, it does help to break it down into segments.

Pacing is critical in the early going, you can dig too deep into glycogen supplies even as early as the first mile so be conservative because then you will have more matches to burn later so to speak.

Think about trying to pass as many people as possible the last few miles and this will boost you and cause you to feel like you are relaxed and in control.

Anxiety is perfectly normal leading up to any important race but in particular the marathon as it can be a bit of a crap shoot sometimes. Ie weather variables, unforseens like rubbing a blistere etc, but all you can do is prepare to the best of your ability and then shine on the day.

Practise everything you can about race day such as what you will wear, make sure you have done atleast 2 long runs in your racing shoes, that kind of thing.

My first marathon was Berlin (2 weeks before the wall came down, so I have dated myself Ha)! and I had not learned to drink on the run so that bit me in the bum at 15kms, yep the race was posted in kilometers, and I finished in 3:01.29 severely dehydrated.

After that I got to practising drinking on the run, so be sure to know how to get the fluids down en route.

There is always a slight anti climax for me after any marathon because I have focused so long and hard to get there, so don't be surprised if you have a teeny bit of that going on.

I think you will have a great experience, you are well prepared and enthused and those 2 things alone will take you a long way.

Keep us all posted on your progress and hope these few little pearls of wisdom are of some help:O)

Sarah, that's such great advice, all of it. I would add that you should practice your nutrition strategy well before race day.

If you're planning to take your racing carbohydrates from the drink table, find out what the marathon is serving and practice with it on long runs so you know your stomach can handle it. I prefer to carry my own gels, and I practice with the flavor I plan to use ahead of time.

I often walk through water stops in marathons since I'm still terrible at drinking while running fast. I'd rather lose a few seconds here and there in order to make sure I actually drink than lose minutes later on because of dehydration.

Also, the Newport, OR race is actually on May 30 (or at least I hope it is, as all my travel is booked for that date!). I've read that the Eugene race is great too, though.

Sarah knows better than anyone dehydration & marathoning...she was with me when I REALLY CRASHED during a marathon. It was a tough lesson to learn (hydrating ALL week before the marathon and during). I tend to get a little anxious a few days before and go through a lot of liquid!!! Sarah helped me w/all of that (see, I listened ;). I eat like crazy the week of and do not change my diet (I actually tend to put on a few pounds...)

I, too, question myself the week of the marathon..."did I do this correct?"...etc. Now I'm trying to relax. A good friend of mine at the gym gave me a book to read, which will be good.

NLS--I wish I could do trail running, but I'm just not good at it. It can get really ugly!!! So, good job!

Eugene I would like to do some day; I was going to go this year, but it falls on my middle's daughter 19th birthday. My brother lives in Eugene, so maybe next year. Good luck!! I hear it is a great race.

i have found it very useful to carry a very small (7-10 oz) water bottle with me during long races. i refill as necessary at fluid stations, but can sip at my leisure while running instead of ending up pouring a bit of sticky stuff on my face and singlet while navigating through crowded (boston, anyone?) hydration stops. knowing that i'll actually get to drink it all, i don't need to fill up many times at all during a marathon. these days i use little bottles with hand straps, but i ran most of my early marathons with bottles with no hand strap; even a 6-oz squirt bottle intended to hold shampoo/lotion from the travel section of the drug store has worked fine. the trick is to find something that comfortably fits your hand. if you're running boston, you might not have time to experiment for this year, but those with races later this spring or in the fall might want to give it a try.

If I had known you were going to do Newport RLG I might have rethought things! But, May 30th might be a little late for me, I don't think I can handle another month of training without peaking too early.

Thank you so much for the tips Sarah, female master (of which I am one too - soon to be 47!), and NLS. I was planning on bringing my own gels. The pace groups for Eugene are from Clif Shot ... and I have used them before too, I was going to try them again this weekend, just in case - I really like Poweraide shots, they are much less 'sticky' and have electrolytes (I have even used them without water in emergency situations - like drinking fountains being turned off). I usually don't drink Gatorade or anything, I might have to try some of the stuff they have at the race just in case but I don't like the sweet stuff much.

Thanks again everyone!

Welcome, female master! I love this thread. There is so much good advice and experience.

NLS - how great about the birthday master's win! That sounds like a tough trail race. The last time I did one in Indy I ended up tripping and falling down a little incline and then met my husband's grandmother for the first time with leaves sticking out of my shirt! Sounds like a good race. Your headphone case and earphones are an their way back to you with a small token of gratitude:)

Azrunning - I think your plan for your race is good. I have run one marathon with the last 5K being my fastest (it was also my most recent one) and there is no feeling better than that feeling of strength when others around you are fading. That would be a great first marathon!

Wow – what an active thread this week – very good to see! I’m impressed by upcoming 100 mile weeks, and happy to see injury recoveries and training going so well.

I have to admit, I’ve found the “pace” function for the Garmin to be so inaccurate as to be useless, and I also find that I tend to spend too much time staring at the Garmin when I have that set. Additionally, GPS reception tends to be iffy where I run, so I can’t generally rely on it. I do like using the GPS during races, to reassure me that I’m still on track when a mile marker is way off.

As for settings, I have a “training” screen showing HR, lap time, and lap distance; and a “racing screen” showing time of day, lap distance, lap time, and total time elapsed.

Congratulations (both racing and birthday) to NLS!

This week was mostly recovery for me, though I did a small 5K as a tempo effort. I ran the 5K in 20:55 (2nd overall, first in age group -- it was a pretty small race), and it was nice to see that what was my 5K PR pace in December has 4 months later become my tempo pace. 80 mile weeks do work!

Achilles is still stiffening up some -- my appointment with the orthopedist was pretty much useless (total of 180 seconds spent, during which he tossed a heel lift at me and told me to run less), so I'm following up with a sports physical therapist, and then will start getting massages regularly.

Here’s how my week broke down:

Monday: Recovery from 10 mile race. 20 minutes on the arc-trainer at a low resistance and some very minimal strength training.

Tuesday: 8 very easy miles on the treadmill (9:29 pace, 2.5% incline), plus a yoga class (7 miles before, one after).

Wednesday: Total of 11 miles. In the morning, 7.5 very easy miles outside (8:59 pace) plus 30 minutes on arc-trainer; in the evening, 3.5 very easy miles outside (8:52 pace).

Thursday: Very easy 6.5 miles on the treadmill (9:13 pace, 2.5% incline), plus weight training and 10 minutes on the arc-trainer.

Friday: Very easy 10 miles on the treadmill (9:02 pace, 2.5% incline), plus yoga (7 miles before class, 3 after).

Saturday: approx 10 miles – 5 miles progression run before race averaging 8:00 pace, 5K race/tempo (average 6:43 pace), and then 2.25 mile cool down (9:00 pace). Also yoga class.

Sunday: approx 10 miles outside with running club at easy pace (average 8:18 - faster than I would have done on my own, but the conversation was good); then hit gym for an hour on the arc-trainer.

Hey Az, there were no gels when I first started running marathons, how times have changed!

As for massage Dark I would put that as a priority since PT deals with the strengthening aspects of an injury and massage addresses the actual tissue.

Granted I may be a wee bit biased on that topic!