Armstrong...EPO in 99 tour?

No, the supposed Armstrong EPO positives in 1999 were thoroughly discredited by the UCI's special investigator, who basically conclude that there was no evidence of anything and the lab and WADA were corrupt and stonewalled the investigation.

What about these tests that supposedly could find EPO from urine specimens frozen for 6 years, when no other lab could? Why aren't they using this test today? The test was bogus, it was all a fraud.

In this case, the police were the criminals.

unless you are intimately involved with ANY of armstrong's tests (pro or anti armstrong) please shut up. i'm sick of reading these little tidbits from people who know absolutely ZERO about it. seriously, shut up.

Listen, you no-peloton spelling piece of....

You're the one who doesn't know squat about any of it as your USUAL worthless post about nothing abundantly demonstrates. Read the independent investigators report if you have any desire at all to fix your ignorance on the subject.

Did anyone read the Sports Illustrated article a couple of years ago on Armstrong? There were several of his teammates giving testimony to his admitting EPO use on his death bed when the doctors demanded knowledge so they could treat his cancer. His masseuse testified she covered up needle marks with makeup, his doctor and several others on the team were indicted, a majority of the team have admitted use individually as well as a team. Not enough too convict but please don'use the "he has always tested clean" mantra. Marion Jones, Barry Bonds, and tons of others not dumb enough to get caught also have tested clean. The circumstantial evidence is over whleming.

Your circumstantial evidence is thin because have your innuendoes confused.

There was one allegation the WIFE of one of his teammates (believe it was Kevin Livingston's wife but it's been a while) that supposedly Armstrong admitted taking EPO. Yet not one other person in the room heard it. Just her.

There have also been the admissions of a couple of his teammates that they themselves took EPO, not Armstrong.

exactamundo wrote:

Your circumstantial evidence is thin because have your innuendoes confused.

uhhh, regardless: if anyone thinks a guy who was clearly the most dominant athlete (and a proven asshole) in a sport that is completely full of drug cheats is clean then they are class A retards.

do you all think OJ is innocent too?

'Not enough too convict but please don'use the "he has always tested clean" mantra. Marion Jones, Barry Bonds'

Good point but cyclists are blood tested whereas athletics have the urine test only which are not as effective.

1999 is difficult to say as there was not EPO test. But post 2000 Armstrong won the tour plenty of times whilst others were failing the test all around him

If he admitted EPO use to his doctor how would his team mates know anything about it?

I read his book recently and was amazed at how bad his cancer was. To come back from that and achieved what he did is amazing

If athletes pass tests, without very strong evidence I prefer to assume they are clean. Otherwise there is no point watching the sport

exactamundo wrote:

Your circumstantial evidence is thin because have your innuendoes confused.

There was one allegation the WIFE of one of his teammates (believe it was Kevin Livingston's wife but it's been a while) that supposedly Armstrong admitted taking EPO. Yet not one other person in the room heard it. Just her.

There have also been the admissions of a couple of his teammates that they themselves took EPO, not Armstrong.

It was Frankie Andreu's wife. Then Frankie backed her and said her heard the same thing. Interestingly, a few years after that, Frankie admitted HE used EPO but also said he never saw Lance use or admit to use....except for that one episode where he backed his wife's testimony.

Now I don't know if the Andreu's are lying or Lance is, and I certainly would not bet my life on Lance never having used, however, as far as this particular episode/accusation, keep in mind:

a) not single other doctor who was involved in treating Lance during that time states he ever even asked Lance the question of "did you use PED's before?", and the doctors stated there was no reason to ask. So it is not a matter of privileged information that the Dr's are protecting. No, they flat out state the question was never asked and there was no reason to ask it.

b) Mrs Andreu was good friends with Lance's ex wife, and when they broke up, was on her side and against Lance. She also publicly states she blames Lance for making her husband use drugs, even though frankie never states that Lance told him to use drugs, or that he even saw Lance use drugs. She hates Lance.

c) Frankie was an admitted doper. I've never bought in the idea that once a guy cops to it, we should trust every word he says on the subject. Kudos to him for coming clean about being dirty, but that doesn't mean every word he speaks on the subject is gospel. He lied and cheated before, why do we trust him now?

d) The whole incident came to light when a company that was supposed to pay Lance 5 mil for winning his 6th tdf in a row tried to back out of it because of Mrs Andreu's hearsay. It went to court and clearly the judge did not buy her and Frankie's story, because Lance got his 5 mil and an addition 2.5 mil for lawyers and interest.

Lance certainly may have used at some point, but I don't much stock in the Andreu story, just as I wouldn't put any stock in anything Greg LeMond has to say on the subject.

Sir Lance-alot wrote:

d) The whole incident came to light when a company that was supposed to pay Lance 5 mil for winning his 6th tdf in a row tried to back out of it because of Mrs Andreu's hearsay. It went to court and clearly the judge did not buy her and Frankie's story, because Lance got his 5 mil and an addition 2.5 mil for lawyers and interest.

A minor point, but in the linked article, Ashenden says the case was settled when it became clear that the company would have to pay the 5 mil even if it could be shown that Lance was doping.

There are other completely undetectable PED's out there besides EPO. Certain steroids, hGH, etc.

Alan

I was always baffled by ex team-mates stabbing each other in the back. Why wouldn't they just come out with the story right after they heard it rather than siting on it for years? Andreau must be a jealous tool.

SMJO wrote:

I was always baffled by ex team-mates stabbing each other in the back. Why wouldn't they just come out with the story right after they heard it rather than siting on it for years? Andreau must be a jealous tool.

He had to give sworn testimony, you do understand how our legal system works, right? But go ahead and call him a jealous tool, it makes you seem knowledgable.

"Our"? The legal system is universal?

lets be honest with ourselves for a moment. he was doped to the eye balls in all his tours along with all the other top cyclists. you don't win 7 tours otherwise, it is the ultimate endurance challenge. Indurain(sp) winner of 5 tours says to win you have to be doped...

just an thought... wrote:

Indurain(sp) winner of 5 tours says to win you have to be doped...

No, he did not say that or anything similar.

Lance Armstrong is one of the greatest athletes of all time in any sport. All this EPO s*%t is just a ploy used by all of the haters to try and shroud his light. They did the same thing to Phelps this past fall.

Do we have any oncologists in the house that can explain why anyone would ever need to know about prior EPO use in order to treat this type of cancer? Or any other cancer? I have a hard time seeing how it's relevant in blood cancers.

Perhaps this type of demand makes sense given the propensity of doctors to demand all knowledge of illegal drug use in TV drama's (i.e. House - interestingly enough, drugs are never relevant, even on Fox!) but not in this setting.

I can see Doc's needing to know if he was on a massive testosterone binge, but it's pretty safe to say that armstrong wasn't on any PED's during his initial treatment.

I'm not a huge lance fan, nor do I think he was clean, but I do think Frankie Andreu's wife is a lying jealous lady.

Did anyone actually read the article? SIX exogenous EPO positives(by current standards) in retesting of his '99 samples, in a pattern consistent with in-tour injection.

Lance is busted.

if really interested please read "from lance to landis" by david walsh for some insight into this huge mystery.