Duncan Kibet and James Kwambai : the role of Claudio Berardelli, and analysis of something new in training

Renato, first let me say how we are so happy to have someone with your knowledge & experience posting here at LR.com. I wondered if you could explain why Fila's Discovery USA Program where athletes like Josh Cox & others training under the renowned Italian coach and cardiologist, Dr. Gabriele Rosa did so poorly or failed? None or a few may have run faster under the famed coach, why? I understand he still has over 200 athletes in his group, mostly africans, no white runners. What i the answer? How is you & fellow Italian coach Claudio Berardelli's planning different from Dr. Rosa? What would you do differently if you could explain so that we could understand the Fila program as it was? Thanks...

God did not want them to succeed.

I never was connected with Gabriele Rosa and his organisation, so really I don't know which type of organisation he had for the FILA program in US. Rosa was the first coach going to Kenya for marathon runners. The first managers going there were interested in track athletes, because Kenya, in the first 90, didn't have good marathon runners. The exception (Douglas Wakhiiuri and Ibrahim Hussein) were of Japanese and American school.

Rosa understood the potential of this people for long run.

His first problem was to give a correct phylosophy of training. So, he gave a very simple training schedule, containing the basilar concepts for a marathon runner. This was the winning act, because it was not possible to complicate too much the program for runners not having specific culture.

Rosa was one of the best Italian coaches of Marathon. His best Italian runner, Gianni Poli, won NY in 1986 and was 3rd in the World Cup 1989. Another athlete he follows directly was Nechadi, the maroccan living in US, that became a mentor of Cathrine Ndereba.

His big merit, apart his technical knowledge, was to create an organisation that was interested in sponsoring his camps. He was the one going in touch with FILA before, with NIKE later, and was able to have more money than any other manager in the world for developing his project.

As coach, he came in Kenya a lot of times, but never staying for very long time. He came for controlling the program of the athletes, looking some specific session, and after went back to Italy.

So, the reality is that he never followed the athletes 100%, how now Claudio can do.

Claudio is a coach, and also can organise the way of living of his athletes in Kenya. He stays here with continuity, and this is the way because he can know the specific, individual attitudes of every athlete so well, that can change the basic program for somebody, in order to create the best "cloth" for everybody.

This fact depends on how long you live with the athletes, not because the phylosophy is now different.

The same thing for me. I was the coach (by programs only) of Nicholas Kemboi from 2001, but I discovered his incredible potential when I had the opportunity to stay with him for 50 days in St. Moritz in 2003. I changed a lot of things, and he ran 26'30".

About the FILA project, I don't think that Rosa was long time in US personally. So, one think is to follow the evolution of the athletes personally, another thing to give programs.

Rosa had a similar program in China too. Also there, the program didn't have success. In this case, the problem was the strictly rules of the Chinese government, that made Rosa prisoner of a situation where he could not use his creative intelligence.

In any case, Rosa has, in my opinion, the most important part in the development of the World of Marathon, expecially under the organisative point of view.

I never was connected with Gabriele Rosa and his organisation, so really I don't know which type of organisation he had for the FILA program in US. Rosa was the first coach going to Kenya for marathon runners. The first managers going there were interested in track athletes, because Kenya, in the first 90, didn't have good marathon runners. The exception (Douglas Wakhiiuri and Ibrahim Hussein) were of Japanese and American school.

Rosa understood the potential of this people for long run.

His first problem was to give a correct phylosophy of training. So, he gave a very simple training schedule, containing the basilar concepts for a marathon runner. This was the winning act, because it was not possible to complicate too much the program for runners not having specific culture.

Rosa was one of the best Italian coaches of Marathon. His best Italian runner, Gianni Poli, won NY in 1986 and was 3rd in the World Cup 1989. Another athlete he follows directly was Nechadi, the maroccan living in US, that became a mentor of Cathrine Ndereba.

His big merit, apart his technical knowledge, was to create an organisation that was interested in sponsoring his camps. He was the one going in touch with FILA before, with NIKE later, and was able to have more money than any other manager in the world for developing his project.

As coach, he came in Kenya a lot of times, but never staying for very long time. He came for controlling the program of the athletes, looking some specific session, and after went back to Italy.

So, the reality is that he never followed the athletes 100%, how now Claudio can do.

Claudio is a coach, and also can organise the way of living of his athletes in Kenya. He stays here with continuity, and this is the way because he can know the specific, individual attitudes of every athlete so well, that can change the basic program for somebody, in order to create the best "cloth" for everybody.

This fact depends on how long you live with the athletes, not because the phylosophy is now different.

The same thing for me. I was the coach (by programs only) of Nicholas Kemboi from 2001, but I discovered his incredible potential when I had the opportunity to stay with him for 50 days in St. Moritz in 2003. I changed a lot of things, and he ran 26'30".

About the FILA project, I don't think that Rosa was long time in US personally. So, one think is to follow the evolution of the athletes personally, another thing to give programs.

Rosa had a similar program in China too. Also there, the program didn't have success. In this case, the problem was the strictly rules of the Chinese government, that made Rosa prisoner of a situation where he could not use his creative intelligence.

In any case, Rosa has, in my opinion, the most important part in the development of the World of Marathon, expecially under the organisative point of view.

Ciao Renato, do you remember the Grand Regency in Nairobi last January ? We talked 'minestrone' while the trouble was going on up country. Thank you for continuing to share your insights with Letsrun readers.

Looking at the progression from Fundamental > Special > Specific for a marathon runner where would the minestrone fit in ?

I am also curious as to what new idea(s) Claudio has brought to marathon training.

Many thanks

Adrian

http://adrianmarriott.blogspot.com/

Renato i agree with you that Claudio success has been mainly because of him being able to stay with the athletes he trains in kenya for a long time.Claudio stays in kenya for 9 to 10 months every year and follows each of his athletes very closely.He also has a fantastic personality and the kenyans adore him.I remember coming across him at a place called kapsabet while he was out recruiting new athletes and he interacted with the people in a warm and a very charming way and the kenyans respected and adored him despite the fact that he is clearly as younger/younger than some of his runners.The athletes also relate to him like a friend since he is basically their agemate yet they also listen to him and never question his ideas.

Claudio has demostrated just like bro o'connell ( the irish priest of st patricks iten) had done that for guranteed success a coach has to follow his athletes.It is not enough to just send them a training program.A coach needs to monitor the athletes response to training and make adjustments where need be.

I have always been facinated by the pure love of kenya and kenyan runners that italian coaches have.I think kenyan runners see it too and therefore have complete confidence in them.

The itallians and the kenyans have two things in common i.e they are passionate and kind hearted.

Freelance coach, very well said.

Adrian, Claudio didn't have any new idea. He discovered that,for some athlete, it was possible running very fast a marathon without a big volume of km.

So, he discovered that there is a typology of runners not needing a lot of km.

But, attention : these runners had a lot of km before (Duncan Kibet is already 32 years old, and in the past, before meeting Claudio, he ran 3 marathons in 2:19, 2:20 and 2:27 : somebody can still think that athletes don't need a good coach ?), so we are in the CENTRAL phase of their career.

If the goal of big volume is to create the right support for THE LONGEST AND FASTEST RUN (that always have to become better during all the career, otherwise there are no more stimula, and the performance goes down), there is an individual limit for that reason : after this limit, the volume loses the reason to be.

The difference between various typologies of athletes are both physiological, mechanical and psychological.

About the last parameter, I remember Gelindo Bordin, that wanted go for 3 hours (52 km about) before his marathons, already after winning Olympic. Lucio Gigliotti (and I fully agreed) explained him that was no more useful running 3 hours after years of preparation at top level ; but Gelindo answered "After running 3 hours, I feel very much more confident and sure about the distance".

The process of searching and finding the best individual way for the top performance must include every side of the human qualities, and the ability to bring an athlete in top shape for the top event is something not connected with a correct knowledge of the methodology only. We have to look for a right way to build the self confidance, and to make the athletes sure about themselves.

One of the qualities for the best coaches, is to LEARN from the athletes. The relation between coach and athlete cannot be like in Army (the coach orders and the athlete obeys), but the coach is a TEACHER able to explain the reasons of every technical choice, with the mentality to make able the athletes, year after year, to go alone walking with his legs.

So, the type of relation is in continue evolution, and the coach becomes an ADVISOR for the athlete after many years of career, not needing to follow step by step every training, also those less important (like we need with beginners).

About the "minestrone", during the GENERAL PERIOD (including the FUNDAMENTAL PERIOD), we have to put volume in our body, not only of km, but for strength and general fitness. In this period, we look for the INTERNAL LOAD. This means that the training (I always remember that TRAINING is not the PROPOSAL, but the individual ANSWER of every athlete)must be valuated according to the level of personal effort. For example, if I give a program with 10 times 1000m in 3' with 1'30" recovery, but the athlete is tired, the day is cold and windy, and he is able to run in 3'10" only using the same level of effort that he uses for running 3' in good conditions, HE HAS TO CONTINUE FOR 10 x 1000 in 3'10", because the INTERNAL LOAD is in any case what we wanted.

Instead, During the SPECIFIC PERIOD, wego to prepare a SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE, and this is mathematic. If you want to run in 30', the speed you need for specific workouts is between 2'55" and 3' per km. If I tell you to run 10 x 1000 in 3', and you run in 3'10", is better for you to quit your training going for regeneration only, trying the SPECIFIC WORKOUTS another day. In this case, we look for the EXTERNAL LOAD, that is OBJECTIVE : for running the same time, every athlete (tall, small, young, old, fast, resistant...) needs to have a training with the SPECIFIC SPEED. That's means that we have big differences in the type of training between athlete and athlete during the GENERAL PERIOD, very little differences instead between the athletes during the SPECIFIC PERIOD. The only thing that can be different is THE SUPPORT (volume, recover, etch...) for the same type of specific training.

Renato i have a few questions for you regarding some of your runners:-

(1) How is the fitness of salina kosgei going into Boston.I ask because i notice that pundits have very much written her off.Even here in this website folks seem to dismiss her chances to say the least.

(2) What happened to Rodgers Rop? is he retired?

(3)Where is Rita jeptoo?

(4) Do you have a training camp in eldoret /iten like Dr.Rosa? and if you do is it open for any sort of runner to attend? iam sure many people who may not be of elite level or are semi-elite would be keen to know about this.

(5)Are you the coach of Abel Kirui (2.05.04 in rotterdam 2009)?

By the way ,Thanks for your very informative posts.

Thank you for the report on Fila & Dr Rosa. One note about who coaches Kibet, there seems to be a need for some clarification, as universalsports.com has Duncan Kibet coached by Dr. Rosa, wondered your thoughts about this misprint or trueth?

In the review of Evans Cheruiyot's chances for victory Universal Sports states;

",...Cheruiyot moved in 2006 to the coaching stable of Dr. Gabriele Rosa, who also guides the training of Robert Kipkoech Cheruiyot, Martin Lel and recently-crowned Rotterdam Marathon champion Duncan Kibet."

http://www.universalsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=23000&ATCLID=3720390

Thanks for your clarification.

They are all coached by Claudio berardelli who is Dr. Rosa protege.Dr Rosa is the main man( chief of Staff) and the main owner of rosa and associates which manages about 100+ top athletes but he also has people that are partners/employees/family members etc who assist him in the various deppartments in the company.Claudio is the main technical coach that Dr. Rosa has in his company.Dr Rosa himself is also a coach but is an old man who is tired of having to go and spend long periods of time following athelets as they train,so claudio who is a in his twenties is perfect for that role.Dr Rosa concentrates on management issues and organising for races.

Renato,

WHAT IF I AM INJURED?

How does one return from Injury? Introductory Period? Would you be willing to provide a sample?

My Italian is not good, so I am not certain what this suggests, but among other things, it does appear to support what Sig. Canova says about the simplicity of the Rosa/Berardelli program.

http://www.unitn.it/events/icms07/download/presentazioni/Rossi_H_MSH2007.pdf

Canova Renato wrote:

because the INTERNAL LOAD is in any case what we wanted

Isn't the internal load what ever guy wants?

Anyway Renato, great post, thank you.

--Wolf Masturbator--

Renato, you speak of a time of 3-4 years that is devoted to pure base building, aka mostly just high mileage. Does this large volume have to be in the form of running or can it be in the form of other aerobic exercises. Obviously 1hr of cycling does not equal 1hr of running in terms of benefit but there is a finite limit to the amount of running you can do. However, cross training is also much less specific and could result in a physiology not suited for running (too big). How much of this base building phase is pure aerobic power and how much is improving effeciency/durability?

Continuing the house metephor, doing only running is like building a house by yourself. Adding in cross training is like hiring some clumsy workmen for the nearby village-sure they might help some but do they also have the chance to mess things up?

Benson Barus another one of Claudio Berardelli's athletes has won Turin marathon in 2.09 in terrible weather conditions.So this guy really does have a winning formular.

Renato, tell us more about him and his methodology, please!

Congrats on womens winner.