Jim Ryun: What could have been?

Timmons has admitted that his one regret with Ryun is that he worked him too hard.

Tardis Runner wrote:

Jim Ryun was amazing!!!!

The guy was absolutely phenomenal. Running 3:55 in a high school meet when the world record was 3:54. And then breaking the world record by three seconds at the age of 19. I would say that showed great promise.

can you NOT help yourself, anytime a Jim Ryun thread is put up? Can you not just keep scrolling past it, just once? Do you always have to worm your way in with backhanded compliments until you finally let loose with your negative comments? I would say that a 355 mile when the world record is 354, shows more than 'great promise'. Just try to stop yourself next time. I am telling you this for your own good and piece of mind.

just keep walking son... wrote:

Just try to stop yourself next time. I am telling you this for your own good and piece of mind.

lol

Jayhawk wrote:

Timmons has admitted that his one regret with Ryun is that he worked him too hard.

Timmons wishes Ryun had gone out for football.

Living in the Past wrote:

The guy was absolutely phenomenal. Running 3:55 in a high school meet when the world record was 3:54. And then breaking the world record by three seconds at the age of 19.

Well, his 3:55 at age 18 was considered the high school *record*, but he certainly didn't run it in a high school meet. He ran it at the national AAU meet, IIRC. (He *did* break 4:00 in a high school meet, however.)

And when he broke Michel Jazy's WR in the mile the next year, it was by just over two seconds, not three.

Fat Boy wrote:

Ryun had a long career and clearly ran as fast as his potential.

Who are the two most overated runners in history?

Jim Ryun and Steve Prefontaine.

How on earth did you conclude that Ryun "clearly ran as fast as his potential"?

As for being overrated, that may depend on whose ratings you're looking at. I won't dispute that Pre is overrated by many Americans, especially when compared with Viren. I don't feel quite the same way about Ryun, although I do think that many Americans have been insufficiently respectful of Kip Keino's great 1500-meter victory over Ryun in 1968, and Keino's career in general.

Probably would have suffered the same fate as Webb.

Short flash, followed by a protracted fizzle.

****

Many times there are patterns that develop, which some people don't pick up. The most obvious pattern is for prepubescent girls to run phenomenal times, with people forecasting all sorts of predictions based on the early success of these young girls. They fail to see that it is likely the case that these girls are at their running peak and "this is as good as it gets".

A similar pattern holds true for males, although in running it tends to happen at a later age - late high school, early college. Essentially these young men have early maturation, and are done by their early 20s. It is my firm belief that Webb is for the most part done - and you will not see continued improvement from Webb as you would expect to see from someone on a normal maturational course.

I realize that this will fall on deaf ears ...

istr wrote:

Well, his 3:55 at age 18 was considered the high school *record*, but he certainly didn't run it in a high school meet. He ran it at the national AAU meet, IIRC. (He *did* break 4:00 in a high school meet, however.)

And when he broke Michel Jazy's WR in the mile the next year, it was by just over two seconds, not three.

Thanks for the correction. You're absolutely right on both counts. Mea culpa.

he ran 3.55 at the kansas state hs meet

mother clucker wrote:

A similar pattern holds true for males, although in running it tends to happen at a later age - late high school, early college. Essentially these young men have early maturation, and are done by their early 20s. It is my firm belief that Webb is for the most part done - and you will not see continued improvement from Webb as you would expect to see from someone on a normal maturational course.

I realize that this will fall on deaf ears ...

Do you have any science to back this up. There was a Jack Daniels thread on here a couple of years ago that argued that there may be a genetic component to long-term development. The notion is that some guys who were pretty good but not great in high school might have a genetic ability to continue to improve more than most. It's an interesting theory that might have some merit.

That sounds more plausible than the idea that some people might reach their maturity earlier and then decline at a younger age than most is hard to accept. But if you have some science to back that up, I'm willing to be persuaded.

ngong hills, esquire wrote:

he ran 3.55 at the kansas state hs meet

Actually, he ran 3:55.3 in San Diego at the AAU championship to defeat Peter Snell.

Living in the Past wrote:

Fat Boy wrote:

Ryun had a long career and clearly ran as fast as his potential.

If you look at the age at which the best milers in the world over the past 40 years set their PRs, you'll find that it's around 24-25. Ryun peaked at 20.

Do you know what an average and a standard deviation are?

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Do you know what an average and a standard deviation are?

Do you understand why a world record holder whose age falls at the extreme end of the distribution curve probably didn't reach his potential?

Did he burn out or suffer from a bad case of mono?

Really was there anything he could have done if mono was the case? That shit doesnt always go away.

Somebody has to fall at the extreme edge of the distribution curve. It isn't proof of anything.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Somebody has to fall at the extreme edge of the distribution curve. It isn't proof of anything.

But any given runner is more likely to fall closer to the center of the distribution curve than at the tail. Ryun falls at the tail, but look at his training. There was not enough rest after hard days, which might have been related to his mononucleosis in 1968, to his staleness in 1969, and to his "retirement" during 1970.

Most people would agree that Ryun's early peak was due to overtraining than to some sort of genetically programmed premature aging.

Living in the Past wrote:

Do you understand why a world record holder whose age falls at the extreme end of the distribution curve probably didn't reach his potential?

That is totally false.

There is no adult age until the decline around 37 to 40 that is any more predictive of world records.

Carlos Lopes ran his marathon WR at age 38.

Ryun was good, could have run faster. But there have been heaps better.

Take a moment to look at the all time mile list for juniors that was posted. How many of those guys went on to run much faster when they were in their 'peak' years?