So let's hear it: How bad did your 401K drop this year?

-37.7% for the year, hopefully this doesn't begin a trend

-39.1%

I am actually in a very enviable position. I just opened my 401K around end of spring because I had already seen the market start to tumble. I then just did the company match and have a year to date return of +4.8% because I put it all in bonds. It isn't the largest 401K ever (it is actually very small) but I am 23 years old and can't wait to flip it over to a more equity friendly (risky) set of funds when the market finally starts showing the upward trend. Like I said, I feel like I am in a very enviable position because I missed the fall out and get to start brand new with the DOW at 8,000.

Sounds like you're in a very enviable position. What's nice is that you'll be able to start brand new, even though the Dow is at 8,000.

I'm down about 10% but was heavy into oil until the late summer

Thanks Lou. You really do know how to clear things up. Your commentary is always enlightening.

I'm up a lot. I helped wipe out those nasty finance companies by naked shorting them to death. It's such a brilliant concept. Instead of borrowing shares and selling them into the market I just tell my prime brokers that I have located some shares (even though I haven't) then I get my favorite journalists to repeat my false rumors and then I hit the sell button until I collapse the stock price and get everyone to panic and dump their shares with market orders and speed up the collapse. I couldn't have done it alone without my paid message board plants that bash the stocks non stop when they are under attack to create fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD). Then the real slick part is I never deliver those shares but I use the money I just took from suckers to enable me more leverage and be able to kill even bigger fish. But of course I do need to make a lot of money because I need to pay certain SEC employees and government officials for looking the other way, or even better blaming the victims I just raped out of their money.

Thank goodness for all those retired folk who put all that money in the market for me to siphon out. Is this a great country or what?

Graduating undergrad. this year, debt free. Thank you state-school tuition and cheap-ass area :D

170 per month rent!

you kewl

money money money... wrote:

Yea not running related, but what the heck, flagpole gets to talk about money all year long, I should at least get one post. So let's hear it, 401K performance for 2008 (what an ugly year for the stock market).

Mine:

-24.69%

You did better than I did brother. My retirement accounts in total were down 39.0% on the calendar year. It was brutal. No worries though. I own even more shares than I did in January 2008, and since I sold nothing, I didn't really lose anything.

HTF should I know? Ex-wife got all my money. Ask her.

ehhhh wrote:

I am actually in a very enviable position. I just opened my 401K around end of spring because I had already seen the market start to tumble. I then just did the company match and have a year to date return of +4.8% because I put it all in bonds. It isn't the largest 401K ever (it is actually very small) but I am 23 years old and can't wait to flip it over to a more equity friendly (risky) set of funds when the market finally starts showing the upward trend. Like I said, I feel like I am in a very enviable position because I missed the fall out and get to start brand new with the DOW at 8,000.

Nice job brother. If I were you, I would switch to all stocks right now. Don't wait. Nice that you've earned a little with bonds, but you don't want to get 4.8% over the life of your investing. At age 23, you have tons of time to weather bad markets, and this one has no where to go but up more than likely. You are in an enviable position. When I was 23 and got in, the DOW was at 2,700. It was a nice climb. Do also remember that with stocks you get dividends also, and they really add up, ESPECIALLY when the stock price is down, if the company is still doing well (which can be the case even with a lowered stock price), the dividend usually gets bigger.

If you wait for the market to chug along, you've waited too long.

"At age 23, you have tons of time to weather bad markets, and this one has no where to go but up more than likely."So even in that statement you agree that the market does have another place to go but up. It could go down. And down big. Nobody can relaibly predict where the stock market will go from here, but I would disagree with Flagpole about putting everything in stocks now. I just don't think equity investors are gonna see anywhere near the returns they have been accustomed to seeing in the past. This buy and hold strategy that has worked for so long, and has been pushed by mutual fund companies/401k programs just may not work. The stock market is so driven these days by fast money hedge funds, and I think there has been such a huge hit in people's confidence in the stock market that it's gonna take a very long time for it to bounce back. There seems to be a very real chance the dow could hit 5000 before it gets to 11000. And those big dividend yielding stocks Flagpole talks about mostly have big yields now because the market expects (rightly so) that these dividends will disappear, or at least be substantially reduced, either by law (for banks)or just by companies not being able to part with the cash. Again, Flagpole is an intelligent, rational poster (and investor), but I'd think long and hard about putting a lot into stocks right now. This idea that stocks are cheap and represent good value now has been a hugely losing strategy that has burned a lot of smart people this year (see Bill Miller whose nearly unmatched 20 year track record was demolished in one year as he kept buying "cheap" stocks which only fell further). My question is, why would you want to own stocks AT ALL, when you can own high quality corporate bonds yielding close to 10% or more? You're way up the capital structure (huge equity cushions beneath you), have an attractive yield, far less voltaility, far less downside risk, etc. By buying a basket of stocks, you have to convince yourself someone will be willing to buy it from you at a higher price next year (or next month, or in ten years). With the bonds, you just need these companies to survive and you make money. Again, I can't predict what will happen, but the case for equities right now is a tough one to make. I certainly wouldn't advise going "all in". Up to you though.

Down 35%.

Question - My employer automatically contributes 5% and then matches my first 5% dollar for dollar. For the past few years, I\'ve been putting 13% in, so my total contributions are 5% auto, 5% match and 13% my contribution for a total of 23%.

Somewhere I read or was told that you should contribute:

1. 401k up to your employer\'s match

2. Roth IRA up to the annual max allowable

3. 401k up to your annual max allowable

Can someone either explain or point me to a website that explains the benefit here?

N

401K's are for suckers.

Dude, I'm not predicting a bottom. I just said "more than likely". Many experts are saying that they believe the worst of the Bear market is over. I agree that no one really knows, but there are reasons to believe it. Could the DOW go to 5,000? Perhaps. Even so, a 23-year-old needs to just get in. Even if you think stocks will never return 11% annually again, putting all money in bonds at age 23 is too conservative in my opinion. Will stocks return 7-8% annually between now and 40 years from now? A very good chance of that. You can still make decent money if you do early and often over 40 years with that kind of return -- it's better than bonds will return.

Flagpole- I'm not trying to get into a silly argument, I was just poking fun I guess at the phrase "nowhere to go but up, more than likely". I think you meant, "market will more than likely go up". But even there, I don't know how you conclude the market has a better chance of going up than down. And you say you're not calling the bottom, but you're advising someone to "switch to all stocks now". That seems to me like you are calling the bottom. Otherwise you might advise to start dipping in slowly at these levels. And my point about bonds vs stocks was more a statement about the realtive value in fixed income right now. You can lock in long term yields of about 10% in high quality bonds right now (even among the safest of the safe in my opinion Wal-Mart, has 30yr bonds yielding about 6.5%). And bonds are definitely safer than stocks. Stocks would need a huge expected return to tilt the risk-reward in their favor. Again, just my two cents.

Dude, I'm not predicting a bottom. I just said "more than likely". Many experts are saying that they believe the worst of the Bear market is over. I agree that no one really knows, but there are reasons to believe it. Could the DOW go to 5,000? Perhaps. Even so, a 23-year-old needs to just get in. Even if you think stocks will never return 11% annually again, putting all money in bonds at age 23 is too conservative in my opinion. Will stocks return 7-8% annually between now and 40 years from now? A very good chance of that. You can still make decent money if you do early and often over 40 years with that kind of return -- it's better than bonds will return.[/quote]

Got to remember that I'm not one to time markets. I believe solely because he's 23 years old that he needs to switch to stocks; 23-year-olds don't need a position in bonds. I couldn't care less really this far out for him if we're at a bottom or not. Long term (and that's how he should look at it), stocks SHOULD greatly out perform bonds. Look at safer investments when within 10 years of retirement and then within 5 years make them even safer. Other than that, stocks (within mutual funds or 401ks or Roth IRAs) are the way to go. Personally I wouldn't dabble in individual stock picking unless I owned my house outright and was already doing the max toward 401k and Roth IRA.

Also, take a look at this --

It's something I've been saying for a little while now. When the bond market crashes (and it will) it will mean VERY good things for the stock market and consumer confidence and getting out of this recession).