Rashid Ramzi 8 x 1k @ 2:30 With 90 Seconds Rest

El G did the same workout.

Runningart2004 wrote:

Toughness has nothing to do with it. Neither does talent.

ANYONE can do 8 x 1k at 3k pace. The REST is the difference. I doubt he started at 90s rest out of the blue. Perform 8 x 1k at 3k pace with whatever rest you need. Then gradually work the rest down. With great endurance you can then move down to 90s rest.

Now here's the question for everyone. Is this an anaerobic workout or an aerobic workout....

AEROBIC. It is your aerobic system that determines the success of this workout with such a short rest. Your legs will be heavy. Your muscles will be on fire. Hydrogen will have turned your blood to battery acid. You will have better success in the last quarter of your race because of this workout and workouts like this.

Alan

Mostly correct Alan, but your statement "Hydrogen will have turned your blood to battery acid." is wrong, blood doesn't become acidic no matter how many hydrogen ions you produce. Muscles become acidic yes, but not blood, that would kill you.

Coe did these famous 6x800m sessions on a downhill road and the distance was measured with the car.

guys,

Im in Morocco, I had a friend train with Ramzi, they dont run that fast on their 1000m reps. They would do somethin like 8x800m in 2:02 and rec. 90sec maybe finish faster but nothing like 8x1000m in 2:30 with 90 sec rec.

Please dont believe everything you read!

makes sense wrote:

I seen many 8:25 3k runners hit 8x1k at 2:50. Makes sense that he could do that (the only thing that makes it that much more impressive is the piece about 90 second rest).

This post expresses a sentiment which I find to be indicative of a problem we have when talking about workouts: namely, that the recovery taken (be it a certain time or a certain distance jogged, walked, or whatevered) is viewed as less important than the distance covered at a certain pace. In reality, distance/time of workbouts, pace of workbouts, and recovery time between workbouts are all working in concert in a workout, and we must know all three to know a workouts true difficulty.

Yes- what makes this workout super hard is the shortrecovery; that\'s the point. I can do 8 x 1k @ 3k pace, too, but I need a break that is substantially longer than 3/5s as long as the work interval; thus, I wouldn\'t be doing the same workout as Ramzi, even adjusted relative to my own intensities because the break between my workbouts would be longer than Ramzi\'s.

8/10... Starting a thread which praises the most hated athlete on this site while finding a convoluted way to work letsrun hero German Fernandez into the discussion is one hell of a solid effort. This could easily reach 5 pages.

Ramzi is too juiced to lose!

This is the most logical post in this thread. you mention that this might be a staple workout for El Guerrouj, but Bekele's WR is about 10 seconds faster. how do you think his workouts compare to this?

You forgot to mention that your muscles will not actually combust, nor will your legs accumulate any more mass than before during the course of the workout.

Runningart2004 wrote:

Toughness has nothing to do with it. Neither does talent.

ANYONE can do 8 x 1k at 3k pace. The REST is the difference. I doubt he started at 90s rest out of the blue. Perform 8 x 1k at 3k pace with whatever rest you need. Then gradually work the rest down. With great endurance you can then move down to 90s rest.

You are assuming he is tryign to run at 3k race pace, which he obviously is not (regardless of whether he can do it). He's just running an 8*1k. Wejo mentioned 3k pace not Ramzi. If the goal is to run as fast as you can for 8*1k with 90 seconds rest, that's very differetn from if your goal is to run 3k pace in that workout with as low amount as rest as possible. Not the same goal. Not saying which goal he had, just saying your post is based on Wejo's post, not Ramzi's.

I'm calling BS on this. I usually do the Daniel's VO2max workout of 5-6x1km at 3k pace with 3:00 rest (twice Ramzi's) several times a season. Doing 3 additional reps, with only half the rest is just unfathonable to me. I'm not running as fast as Ramzi (only around 2:50 for me), but both of us are running at the same percentage of our max heart rate and because I'm taking longer for each rep my work:rest ratio is even higher than his.

Your speed (3k pace) would have to be disproportionatley slow compared to your overall aerobic ability to be able to do 8x1k at 3k pace with that short a rest, and Ramzi is an 800-1500 guy with great overall speed. Maybe a guy like Kalid Khannouchi could do it (but he wouldn't be running 2:30).

haha

if you wanted to know what i did i would overestimate it also. it just might make my opponents go try the shit and fail hard, putting me further ahead.

otherwise you should worship me even more cos i am a very hard trainer with the sessions i do.

I am betting his aerobic system is a lot better than yours. It will allow him to recovery a lot quicker.

Dingler wrote:

I'm calling BS on this. I usually do the Daniel's VO2max workout of 5-6x1km at 3k pace with 3:00 rest (twice Ramzi's) several times a season. Doing 3 additional reps, with only half the rest is just unfathonable to me. I'm not running as fast as Ramzi (only around 2:50 for me), but both of us are running at the same percentage of our max heart rate and because I'm taking longer for each rep my work:rest ratio is even higher than his.

Your speed (3k pace) would have to be disproportionatley slow compared to your overall aerobic ability to be able to do 8x1k at 3k pace with that short a rest, and Ramzi is an 800-1500 guy with great overall speed. Maybe a guy like Kalid Khannouchi could do it (but he wouldn't be running 2:30).

I get the feeling that Ramzi answered the question with something that stood out - like one of his most difficult workouts that he only uses very rarely. This is obviously a peaking VO2 workout to incorporate lactate buffering, which would coincide with the time that he is in his absolute best training shape (pre championship). I wouldn't dismiss this as BS. Yes, it's a difficult workout but it could be very appropriate if applied at the right time.

I have done something kind of similar:

3 sets of 3x1k @ 5k race pace. 30 sec rest between reps and 90 sec rest between sets. It was difficult for me but it wasn't out of this world.

Factor in the much higher level of training background he has and I have no problem believing that he can not only do this but benefit greatly from it.

Below is a work out done by Rui Silva in the fall of 1999. He is the Athens Olympics 1500 Bronze medalist.

PB's:

800 - 1:44

1500 - 3:30

3000- 7:39

5000 - 13:19

6X1000m @3minutes jog recovery

(2:46.4 + 2:42.5 + 2:42.1 + 2:37.6 + 2:37.5 + 2:30.1)

This was posted by Antonio Cabral @

www.mariusbakken.com

i think he must be on steroids to be doing this kind of a workout.

hicham el guerrouj use to do a similar workout:

5 x 1k @ 2:30 w/ 2:30 rest

8 x 1k @ 2:30/ 1:30 rest sounds more k. bekele-esque, because he's one of the only guys that i would think would be able to do a workout like that.

what is the source of this workout information? are we sure it was 2:30's, meaning maybe they k's were ran in 2:38 - 2:30?

i see the source:

"What does the Olympic metric mile champion consider a tough session on the track?

RR: (Laughs) I know this one. Eight repeats of one kilometer. I run them between 2:29 and 2:31 with about 90 seconds rest (in between), depending on how fast the heart rate comes down."

that's toeing the redline

This doesn't really mean anything. Rui Silva may have done a slower yet similar workout at some point, but it's pointless to compare. Different parts of the seasons, different abilities in terms of how they handle workouts, different capabilities, different bases, ect. You can't compare a single workout between two super-elite athletes and say it's possible or impossible. That said, I distinctly remember Adam Goucher saying in 2006 or so, when he ran 13:10, that he did 6x1k in the 2:30s. Maybe not 2:30 flat, but in that range. For him, that was an extremely difficult workout, done when he was at very fit (nearing competitive season). Which should indicate the relative doability of that workout. And, he's the Olympic Champion, World Champion. Why does he need to lie? He's better then anyone else even when they train as hard as possible. This isn't going to motivate any one of the few people who can compare to get off the coach and bust out a few more repeats.

Ramzi is probably capable of the following:

3:27

7:25

12:50

I believe that anyone who can handle the Olympic rounds and win the gold has highly developed endurance, beyond "just" being a 3:30 type at 1500m, with a fast 800m. This has always seemed to be Alan Webb's weakness that he has solid, 1:43 speed and a strong 1500m time, but compared to some of the Kenyans doesn't have the strength (look at relative 5k PRs). Lagat is a sub 13 5k runner; he can survive rounds without it significantly affecting his speed. Which, when healthy, means that he's one of the best in world in a OG/WC type situation, as 2007 can give testament to.

I think it is BS as well, in college we did alot of work on short rest, 90 seconds is a very,very short rest, even on a short interval. The cumulative effect is devastating, the first few intervals seem pedestrian but by the 6th interval you feel like you have no rest at all, your legs cramp & lock on you and you hyperventilate, the last 3 intervals feel as if they are back to back.

I don't like math so i can't give all the ratios, but my coach was an Olympic finalist in the 800, this was a workout that was very popular in his day and he told me no one had ever done 8x220 in 24 with 90 sec rest, he claimed his best was 8x220 in 26, granted this is a much shorter workout but the effort level, duration in relation to the recovery time is not even CLOSE to what is being claimed in this thread. I know from personal experience what my workout did to me and other good runners, any increase in

effort is compounded by 7 more intervals at almost non existant recovery. At 1/4 distance race pace it is a brutal workout at 1/2 distance race pace it is impossible,

4 repeats at 1/2 distance race pace would probably be the max for elite runner, 6 for world class, 8 impossible.

BS.