Rank The Top 12 Men's Marathoners Of All Time -

I think Hersch omitted a lot runners from the late 70s through the late 90's due to rampant PEDS use (like Lopes, Salazar, Bordin, Fiz, and KK who came to prominence during this period). The use of PEDS and techniques (blood transfusions) became rampant in the 70's and early 80's due to Eastern block and Finnish dominance. Then in the 90's came the wonder drug EPO. If you can't beat them join them motto.

I think the test for Cera will bring records back in the normal range. We will see who gets caught from the 08 Olympics and future World Major Marathons!

I never like these GOAT debates, unless it's in some sport where there is a clear cut GOAT (maybe Phelps in swimming, Tiger eventually in golf, and Gretzky in hockey). Otherwise, it just boils down to a bunch of people using a bunch of different criteria (time, WR's, championships, big wins against certain competition, longevity, breakthroughs, other factors) to argue for a bunch of different people. And it doesn't really matter. It doesn't change anything about any of these runners. Geb still has the WR (at least for now). Bekele still has his gold medals. Boston Billy still has his 8 total wins at NY and Boston. And most of these candidates never ran against each other (at least not in their prime).

...but carry on.

Wayne B wrote:

Bikila, Shorter, Wanjiru, Wolde, Rodgers, Gebrselassie, DeMar, Cerpinski, Abera, Baldini, Seko, Pheidippides

To me, this list looks like one made by someone without much knowledge of the history of the race. I'm a bit surprised by the absense of Dorando Pietri, whose Olympic loss was instrumental in establishment of the marathon distance. Whomever had suggested Jim Peters made a good one. What about either of the Johnny Kelleys? There's also a case to be made for Amby Burfoot, who won both Boston and Fukuoka, but went on to greater fame writing about the sport. Salazar with his WR's. (I realize I'm skewing American, and apologize for that.)

amby DID NOT win fukuoka, he might have been 6th, i really don't care but he did not win. he came within 8/10ths of the american record then held by buddy edelin (who by the way was pretty good in his era).

Shorter won Fukuoka four or five times.

Yanqui wrote:

Shorter won Fukuoka four or five times.

yes, shorter won it 4 times but burfoot never won it as claimed in the post i responded to..

SA Baby wrote:

Plaatjes needs to at least be mentioned. '93 world champ, LA winner, ran a 2:11 in SA at 5500ft (do the math)

No, I don't think he needs to be mentioned. To be a candidate for the top 12 you need to have either a world record, Olympic medal(s), or multiple big-city marathon wins.

2:08:58 pr, winning LA, and being world champion are all good but not nearly close to winning Boston, New York, London, Chicago, the Olympics or setting a world record.

The Concrete Runner does not like this list. Geb has to be first on the list. Most of the other runners wouldn't even finish in the same zip code as Geb if they were to run the same race.

Keep it o the crete!

Absolutely Pheidippides should be on this list. Here we are, mentioning his name, ~2500 years later. In this case, the myth makes the man.

Well then I think that St. Ralph kid should be on the list. He won the Boston Marathon when he was like 12 and did workouts like 20xmile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcIQ02uOfBE&feature=related

Oops, never mind, he got 2nd.

Juma Ikanga was awesome.

please get better inormation wrote:

amby DID NOT win fukuoka, he might have been 6th, i really don't care but he did not win. he came within 8/10ths of the american record then held by buddy edelin (who by the way was pretty good in his era).

Thanks for correcting me. I wrote that from memory, and in checking, it looked like you were right on your 6th.

I don't think Lee Bong Ju should be considered one of the greatest 12 ever. But in terms of longevity, he's got to be considered one of the greatest marathoners ever.

For 16 years now (1993-2008) he has run at least one marathon sub-2:13.

For 19 years now (1990-2008) he has run at least one sub-2:20 marathon.

A little revision in my eye...

1. Bill Rodgers

let the flak begin. But lets face the facts "top" isn't just about the times. Nobody has ever come close to matching what this guy has done within and for the sport. He ran 29 marathons under 2:15, a feat that has never been approached, and lasted about 3 or 4 times as long as most elite marathoners in terms of marathons ran. Yeah, yeah, his 4 Boston and 4 New York wins were in the 'easy' days before cash prizes were involved, but isn't it ironic that in 1986, the year that a prize purse was introduced, a 38 year old, beat up Bill Rodgers managed a 4th place in 2:13 in his FORTY FIRST marathon, for a cut of the prize money? Oh yeah, and he also came out on top in a duel with Aurtuo Barrios, the 20k world record holder at the time, during the latter stages of the race. So a 2:09 guy in a time when only 2 others had even broken 2:10, putting up credentials in longevity and consistency that transcend any era and claiming 9 major marathon titles (more than anyone in that list), is pretty tough company to match in my book.

Also, add Steve Jones to that list. His tenacity in Marathoning broke all the rules, and to take a race out in 61:43 clear back in 1985 and hold on for the win at 2:07:13 , one second off the world record, certainly warrants recognition among the best ever.

there is some crazy shit being talked here, yes Geb has run the fastest, but it doesn't make him the best of all time.

Very good list whoever posted the WRs and Wins lists on page 2.

Tergat has NO place there, he has a WR and a NY and thats it right? Clayton should definitly be there as should Seko higher up, I think Gharoib with his record in ultra competitive times deserves a spot too. My list would be more like this:

Bikila

Rodgers

Seko

Geb

Gharoub

Clayton

Lel

Shorter

Rodgers ranked higher than Geb? This guy is so clueless I am surprised he does not reserve a spot for Dean Karnazes. I'd rank Doug Kurtis (76 sub 2 hr 20 marathons) ahead of Pheidippides. All depends on your criteria.

Thats because Rodgers SHOULD be ranked higher than Geb. Sure, 2:03:59 is INSANE, but the only thing that Geb has proven is that he can consistently lower the world record when placed on a pancake course with pacemakers. Honestly, you don't think that Rodgers could have bettered 2:08:33 (the record in his day) a few times had he been put on a flatlandathon with pacemakers (which were unheard of in his time, people set records in real races) His 2:09:27 came at Boston, which despite a net drop remains considerably more challenging than a course such as Berlin, and for perspective he did run 2:08:23 once in Japan but the course was found 200 meters short, but it still would have been 2:09:00.

We aren't talking about lining the two up for a race. Geb in his prime would KILL Rodgers in his. But Bill was without any modern training advancements since his time and without altitude training (2+minutes right there), and his resume far outshines Geb at the moment. There is really no question in my mind

I think your way overestimating how much altitude matters for most runners (there are some super responders).

Fried Steak Man wrote:

But Bill was without any modern training advancements since his time and without altitude training (2+minutes right there), and his resume far outshines Geb at the moment. There is really no question in my mind

to all the guys pushing for Geb to be high on that list please provide me with a list of marathoners the best in his generation who he has beaten?

has he ever beaten:

Lel?

Cheryouit?

Limo?

Gourmi?

Gharoub?

Wanjiru?

Tergat?

Ramaala?