The $700 Billion Bailout Package

Sagarin wrote:

I would find a GOVERNMENT FACILITATED plan that relies heavily on the shrewd and well endowed to do its negotiating with the negligent carrion much more palatable.

Hear, hear...

so how do you explain today's move...did those same big institutions realize the world wasnt ending and they picked up the same exact shares that they dumped yesterday??

no really i don't know and since you are GOD...you must know...

It was technical. The market is skittish and yesterday the VIX topped 50, downside volume was 98%, and all of the stochastics are extremely oversold. People are trying to play a bounce from the panic. Today's "rally" was on very light volume, so I wouldn't get all giddy just yet.

thanks for the profound statement.They don't produce wealth, their explicit goal is to keep inflation low and unemployment low as best as they can... there are certainly examples where central banks have failed miserably at this (or worse, see the depression).Greenspan kept rates too low in 2000's many would argue, but he knew enough in the 90s not to raise them when it was unnecessary

Mtn Dew wrote:

The fed is not responsible for the creation of real wealth in America. At best they've created the illusion of wealth.

Changing the subject from economics to the politics - I don't know politics that is for sure. But one thing I am sick of is the finger pointing accompanying this bill...

i don't want to hear another damn word from either party saying this is why, or that is why

either they didn't pass it and that is the decision OR they seem to being it should be passed in which case they should get over their stupid party politics and work together

if there was anything that was not party oriented i would have thought it was this, i guess i was wrong

bailout right or wrong - to me congress has never looked more inept, tainted and incapable of inspiring confidence.

thats horseshit...

while the volumes on the NASDAQ and NYSE were down today vs. yesterday it wasn't a huge difference and yesterday wasn't even the biggest volume day of the month...

NASDAQ

average volume for last year is 985.75

todays volume was 961.96 yesterday's was 1144.58

so again volume was down it wasnt far off the average...hell the high was on 9/19 volume was 2051.7

NYSE

average volume for last year is 1462.74

todays volume was 1621.52 yesterday was 2034.2

so again yes down from yesterday but still average and both are well below the high volume of 2997.61 on 9/19

Ok, firstly, volume was light relative to the last few weeks, which is the period I am most interested in, not some 200-day moving average. Admittedly, I wasn't watching the close, but it looks like the rally peetered somewhat. I'll have to check volume in the last half-hour. Secondly, the difference between today and yesterday or any day and yesterday is that downside volume was enormous yesterday. Hard to sustain that kind of carnage for long.

anEconomist wrote:

Changing the subject from economics to the politics - I don't know politics that is for sure. But one thing I am sick of is the finger pointing accompanying this bill...

i don't want to hear another damn word from either party saying this is why, or that is why

either they didn't pass it and that is the decision OR they seem to being it should be passed in which case they should get over their stupid party politics and work together

if there was anything that was not party oriented i would have thought it was this, i guess i was wrong

bailout right or wrong - to me congress has never looked more inept, tainted and incapable of inspiring confidence.

The problem is, we are in the quadrennial silly season with only five weeks to go. People are interested in saving their asses via perceived alignment with their constituencies and getting their candidate elected. That's yet another reason I have a real problem with the government writing THIS particular bill NOW.

Sagarin wrote:

I would find a GOVERNMENT FACILITATED plan that relies heavily on the shrewd and well endowed to do its negotiating with the negligent carrion much more palatable.

Well endowed? Too bad Johnny Holmes kicked the bucket, he could be just what we need.

Let's put off doing what the economy needs because it is election season - nice.

Sagarin wrote:

The problem is, we are in the quadrennial silly season with only five weeks to go. People are interested in saving their asses via perceived alignment with their constituencies and getting their candidate elected. That's yet another reason I have a real problem with the government writing THIS particular bill NOW.

Speak softly and carry a big stick as they say. You and I might both take a page from that playbook.

Sagarin wrote:

Speak softly and carry a big stick as they say. You and I might both take a page from that playbook.

I guess both our wives would appreciate it eh?

Speaking of the economy I have to go write some training for the Indians we hired to replace the Brazilians that we hired to replace the Americans. Later

Have fun.

I believe the point was that there is no way in hell the politicians can effectively create a plan for what the economy needs due to the upcoming elections. Right or wrong that is the reality of the moment.I still think that the "no" vote on Bailout 1.0 was a glimmer of hope that our government hasn't gone absolutely bonkers. Let's wait to see what they can come up with in v2.0.

anEconomist wrote:

Let's put off doing what the economy needs because it is election season - nice.

Keith Stone wrote:

[quote]

There are plenty of options on the table to right the economy once the CEO protection plan is off the table. Let Wall St self-flagellate for a while and they're figure out soon enough that the sky isn't falling, deals are still happening, and once they dump the beemer to get some capital they can participate in the market again.

Have you considered in your demented head, that the typical big shot "wall street slicker" you rail against has made 1-2 million per year for the last 6 or 7 years and can safely retire and live very well with 10 million plus in savings? The biggest guys have multiples of that.I have some terrible news for you that you obviously haven't considered. They are going to be fine and so are their families. Whether the rescue package goes through, all this works itself out, or we go into a depression, they have little to worry. You know who else is going to be fine? The dirt bag mortgage brokers and real estate agents who raked in the huge cash in this debacle.

You know who will get hit the worst if this blows up and credit ceases for an extended period? It's the "main street regular people" that you think you represent in your simple minded rants against "the man." You know who else will get slammed? Thousands of "regular joes" on Wall Street and with financial firms in back office positions across the country drawing similar salaries to other common office workers in anywhere USA.

Idiots like you have been bloviating horseshit like "I'll take my chances with a recession or even a depression, as long as those big shots are being punished and get theirs" or "the sky isn't falling yet let them sweat". You know what stupid? the only place they will be punished or sweat is in your act like a common man delusional dreams. Tell me, at your hated CEO level the dirtbags and Lehman or Bear Sterns made 200 million plus, do you think they are worrying about putting food on the table? They and their families will not hurt. Ever.

However if American banking or investment institutions don't get help ASAP, as self appointed leader of the "regular folk", you should understand they will pay dearly in terms of the loss of credit. Not only their own, but of the businesses in their area. And what happens when they can't get credit to function? The businesses get rid of their employees and unemployment spikes. Then tax revenue drops in whatever city has the misfortune to have you as a resident and problems worsen

Speaking of taxes. Who do you think pays the bigger percentage in taxes in this country? The "Big shots" and their employees, or the "Ima cash payin small biznezz man an proud uv it" guy or accountant who thinks he is getting some kind of revenge on Wall Street now?

How do you explain to the "main street" people who were planning on retiring in the next two years that instead of doing as they planned they have to work 5 more years because their 401k took a 30 or 40% haircut so you can "show those big shots a thing or two".

Your ignorance of how the markets work and influence everything in the country is jaw dropping.

Funny, I just heard a economist who is in the business on Glenn Beck show who disagreed with you, yet you sound like a know it all. You don't know everything, you just believe everything you have been taught. Thanks for sharing .

anEconomist wrote:

thanks for the profound statement.

They don't produce wealth, their explicit goal is to keep inflation low and unemployment low as best as they can... there are certainly examples where central banks have failed miserably at this (or worse, see the depression).

Greenspan kept rates too low in 2000's many would argue, but he knew enough in the 90s not to raise them when it was unnecessary

You have a very positive view of the federal reserve. They've inflated the money supply a great deal lately and have caused a bubble. The problem is that there is a semi-private entity dictating things like interest rates at all. Our economy is in worse than that it otherwise would be if there were no fed.

Gordon Gecko III wrote:

Glenn Beck

OK

For those of us who are not focused only on Wall Street or Main Street in the USA, there are clearly some huge forces at work here. Anyone who denies that is not in touch with what's going on around the globe, as we all hopefully work our way through this "crisis". Thanks to those who are offering some good "food for thought".

turku wrote:

For those of us who are not focused only on Wall Street or Main Street in the USA, there are clearly some huge forces at work here. Anyone who denies that is not in touch with what's going on around the globe, as we all hopefully work our way through this "crisis". Thanks to those who are offering some good "food for thought".

It is racing through Europe like wildfire now. So far over the past two days European governments have bailed out Dexia Sa, Fortis, and Hypo Real Estate holding AG. There is more on the way. The Euro had it's biggest move and drop against the USD since it's inception today.