ah sorry i forgot to address that part of your stuff
fUrCeOsNhN wrote:
Thanks. Maybe I will try modifying my technique a little.
The reason I usually put my leg so far back is that I feel it replicates the running motion better. Also I have hip flexor tightness so stretching those out when going down is as important for me as the strengthening for the front leg.
I wouldnt change anything with the training regime, I just would have listened to him more. I would have done the hills, drills, etc more religiously throughout the year, I would have taken even better care of myself from 18-22 years old (sleep, diet, regular hours, etc), and I would have had more patience when I got really tired to back off. Perhaps we could have schedule in an easy week every 8 with lower mileage--a heal-up week. I would get in a rut and thought I had to just plow my way through it like the character in "Once A Runner". injury every time.....
just asking wrote:
I'm just asking but is there anything you would have changed about your training if you had the chance to go back? For example more or less mileage, more or less frequent hills or workouts, more strength or speed based, etc.
I know your coach is highly respected but I'd like to get some insight from you yourself instead of just asking you the training you did.
reading back i just want to go over a few things, happy to be corrected though
fUrCeOsNhN wrote:
So the PC system supports the first 10-20 seconds of the race and is used for explosive movements.
And it takes at least a few minutes to fully replenish itself.
Are the guys who do strides up until the minute before the race, bounce around on the start line and jump trying to keep their legs warm and ready actually depleting their PC stores? Is 2-3 minutes of standing around better?
I can't imagine just standing there before a race, but that's what Kipketer did. Cool as ice.
my intuition is that you need to work on your strength. Faster distance stuff, the tempo runs, the cut down 800s...this is the real gritty work that will transfer your speed over to longer distances.
adam sandler wrote:
WHAT IF YOU ARE NOT A 400M TYPE OR A 1500M TYPE - JUST IN BETWEEN.
I USED TO BE ABLE TO RUN THE 400 IN 47-48, BUT I'VE BEEN RUNNING DISTANCE FOR YEARS NOW AND HAVEN'T RUN FASTER THAN 49-50 LATELY. MY BEST IN THE MILE IS 4:18, SO I'M NOT REALLY A MILER EITHER.
I'VE RUN 1:50 IN THE 800M, BUT HAVE ALWAYS WONDERED IF I WOULD BE BETTER OFF WITH MORE SPEED WORK, OR MORE DISTANCE WORK.
I am a converted Asics fan....lots of forefoot cushion, not such a built up heel as you point out.
Shoeman wrote:
What sort of footwear do you recomend for different runs/sessions. My preference is for a lightish weight, fairly low profile shoe for the majority of running. I think a lot of injuries and bad ruuning action result from shoes that are too cushioned and built up.
Old Sub 4,
OldSub4 wrote:markeroon wrote:No sitting on the long run.....striding...train those muscle systems and form to LAST. sitting only on the pure sprinting...good power generation but aweful on your structural system. Can't do 80 mpw sitting without injuring your achilles or IT band in my book.
I didn't get the feeling that this was what OldSub4 was advocating "sitting" on a long run. It sounds like he's more focusing on the muscles that will get one through the majority of the 800m efficiently, not the form used by Coe in the last 100m of, say, the 1500m final in LA.
You need to be able to change gears --stride to sit for kicking, and you can see Coe do this every race where he is humming....but 90 percent of your work is in teaching your striding form to be durable
A workout that might work for you is broken 600's Run a [email protected] sec then without stopping run [email protected] sec then without stopping run [email protected] sec.
fUrCeOsNhN wrote:
I was doing my hill sprints at the end of a long hill workout just now, (2X4X15second up a 1/4 mile 10% hill), and I was just thinking, is there a phosphate threshold? No, I don't think about this type of thing when I am running usually, it sortof just popped into my head when jogging down the hill.
The lactate threshold is when there is a steady level of lactate/H+ in the blood, as it is being produced and cleared at an equal but opposite rate.
Now phosphate stores will be depleted very rapidly at high speeds, sort of like how lactate accumulates very quickly at 400-800 pace. Phosphate stores are replenished when resting or jogging very slowly, sort of like lactate being cleared from the blood.
There must be a running speed where phosphate stores are restored and depleted at the same rate, right? Would this speed trainable, like the lactate threshold is?
Maybe workouts that have you sprint and then recover at a moderate pace, then sprint again many times without stopping? A bit like the Lydiard sharpening phase (sprint-float-sprint-float...)
yes yes and yes OldSub4 - Snell had the slowest 200m time in his Rome Final yet he was able to run to a higher percentage of that in the closing stages of the race. Yes more people should believe this that you say.
OldSub4 wrote:
SPEED
How fast do you need to be?
I dont think you need to be a 47 quarter miler in high school to be considered, but you probably need to have run a 50 or so. Like I said my top end 200 speed was around 21.7, but I think I had a little more front end speed than a number of guys. If you are a real 800m man with fast and slow twitch you can take 22 200m speed and run a 47 quarter off that. With 47 speed you can go out in 50 from the gun and feel comfortable enough to compete over the last 400m. If you are much slower than this I dont know if you can be on the pace at an international level. When I was in HS i was amazed by anyone who could run under 50, but particularly for late growers, your 400 speeds really keeps improving with age and with training until you are probably 21....even Michael Johnson dropped a few seconds in his 20s. So if you are a 51 second 400m man in HS you should absolutely be encouraged to shoot for the moon if you have the gumption to take up 800m training.
it is common that someone can run 23 seconds for the 200m and train it down to 22. It is the rare one who has both the physical and the mental covered, often enough this same one also has the emotional covered, sometimes the even rarer one has the spiritual in mind - yet all who can run 22 seconds can develop the rest - what is a life if it is not fully lived? What is a person who ceases to continue to change
WILL THEY DO THE TRAINING
Too many incredible athletes with all the tools flat out wont do the training. They come up with every excuse in the book (I cant run distance, I am more of a sprinter, etc) NOT to do the gruelling, hard, distance pace work and tempos that sculp your middle striding gears. It does take commitment and it can be demoralizing....plus you roll the dice on wear-down injuries. But if you are a post collegiate athlete my philosophy is --what do you have to lose? If you are not going to be competitive internationally find that out and go have another life! Running 1:45 high and finishing 6 at Nationals is a wonderful feat for one year, but not for 4 straight.
take much time before moving up i say, seek the knowledge that already exists that speed can be greatly enhanced if the methods are known. Speed is not as much about twitches as the physiology perspective leads us to believe, it is as much about efficiency and efficiency can forever be gained
MOVING UP
Depending on your build, training capacity, and desire...everyone should keep pushing up an event if they feel limited by their speed. 800m is a wonderful event--the toughest in my book since you are never running faster out of lanes--but the 1500m is a really fast race as well with more tactics and more time to race. The training is so similiar you will barely notice and you can be so much more competitive.
yes to your capitals OldSub4 - YES general before specific as all the specific can do is fully maximise that already gained by the general, you can maximise this general completely during the specific but you cannot gain extra
RACING
It is all about preparation and relaxation. Nothing worse than feeling unprepared and dreading how terrible you are going to feel at the end in horrendous oxygen debt throwing up. I did it all through HS and racing was SO MUCH EASIER WHEN YOU ARE IN BETTER GENERAL CONDITION. You feel more confident, you run more relaxed, and that lets you run faster times. Someone posted about how they needed an occassional speed workout every 3 weeks and i have to agree -- the training needs to be patient (your coach should take responsibility for this) but also give you the milestones you need to feel confident and encouraged.
and what work did you need more of? general or specific?
CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES
We havent even addressed this, but remember that you are running 3 tough races in about 5 days....Coe was great at addressing this. In the OT in 1992 I ran good races day one and in the Qtrs but on day 3 I was destroyed and did not recover...luckily my whole extended family globally got to see me blow up on Global TV in the Semi. I did great for me that year but I realized I hadnt done the work to keep moving on...
when you've given up?
what up doe wrote:
how do you know when its time to move up an event?