Running Times Podcast on Minimalism

jaguar1 wrote:

Olympic Marathon Trials qualifier and finisher

Softest Olympic Trials event and qualifying standard EVER.

This year there were 21 American women under 2:40 in the marathon and 14 of them were between 2:35 and 2:40. If they made the trials standard faster, there might not be much of a race.

Rod Dixon, 2:08 marathon, bronze at world cross and Olympics 1500m bronze turned me onto minimalism, along with 3 x Olympian 2:09 marathon runner Jon Brown and Nobby Hashizume. (I like throwing names around to stop a conversation like that). Also CDN record holder in the 20k race walk (2:18 marathon) and a 13:29 5000m guy....:o)

So P~.

And to the other guy, although I am not fast, I had 5km pbs x 3 this last spring, as well as an 8k, 10k and half marathon pb. BUT it might just be because of me doing a full Lydiard cycle too!

I will say that with a few easy days, I feel very springy. My feet, ankle etc feels very strong...

Jaguar1

FINALLY!!! Finally someone says, you don't pound.

I have come to detest the word 'pound' when it pertains to running. There is no pounding, unless you are in the very beginnings of running from the couch or you are going down steep downhill.

Yes there is plenty of so called impact, but the body was made to run. Concrete...maybe not, but some dirt trails in the summer are harder than asphalt, so I think asphalt road is perfectly fine.

MAYBE people pound when their feet are not developed because they wear controlling or cushioning shoes...flats are were it is at!

Would minimalism help with overpronation? My ankles turn in pretty badly and I feel the effects up the chain in my knees.

By what mechanism would having stronger feet and ankle muscles alleviate this?

Does this guy from Maine not know that guys like Gebrselassie have completely flat feet?

Does this guy from Maine not know that guys like Gebrselassie have completely flat feet?

mostly for hobby runners wrote:

if the minimalist approach works for you people and keeps you moving, more power to you; but it won't really work for serious, competitive runners who pound out big mileage and run at the college or post college level. It is mostly for slower, run --for fun types that are looking for 'something different'. The barefoot runners and their fetish with it are your next stop. The minimalist lifestyle becomes the end unto itself, not running fast; but you all know that.

Really? So Mizuki Noguchi, Naoko Takahashi, and just about every Japanese runner worth a shit aren't fast and don't run enough for you?

mostly for hobby runners wrote:

if the minimalist approach works for you people and keeps you moving, more power to you; but it won't really work for serious, competitive runners who pound out big mileage and run at the college or post college level. It is mostly for slower, run --for fun types that are looking for 'something different'. The barefoot runners and their fetish with it are your next stop. The minimalist lifestyle becomes the end unto itself, not running fast; but you all know that.

Apparently you are the misinformed one.

I see another charity runner. wrote:

Softest Olympic Trials event and qualifying standard EVER.

You likely didn't qualify at all, but to put it in perspective for you:

2:47:00 for a woman = 2:21:22 for a man (Mercier calculator)

So actually the women's standard was tougher than the men's (plus they had a longer qualifying window). They will lower the women's standard, but not by much.

70s guy wrote:

Smell the coffee wrote:

[quote]mostly for hobby runners wrote:

if the minimalist approach works for you people and keeps you moving, more power to you; but it won't really work for serious, competitive runners who pound out big mileage and run at the college or post college level.

Tell that to Herb Elliot, Abebe Bikila, Zola Budd, Doris Brown,...

Uhh...you prove my point. tell me the runners from today that embrace minimalism, not ones from 40 years ago. Too many injuries.

What difference does 40 years make? The foot and body aren't any different now that they were forty years ago.

I had exactly the opposite experience from yours. I was fine doing big miles in the shoes we had in the 70s and early 80s. By 1990 I was running in conventional trainers and was having an awful time with my right knee. Eventually I started doing all my runs in racing shoes and the problem went away. I've also found that I'm fine in a lot of the retro models. But I still can't run in "normal" trainers.

pronater wrote:

Would minimalism help with overpronation? My ankles turn in pretty badly and I feel the effects up the chain in my knees.

By what mechanism would having stronger feet and ankle muscles alleviate this?

Hi, I didn't get to talk about my feet on the podcast. I HAD very flat feet before I switched to flats. My feet were so flat that I had 3 stress fractures in my left foot and was prescribed orthotics, which I wore for 4 years. I dealt with a whole new set of problems when I started wearing orthotics (~IT Band, chronic shin pain, stress fractures in my femurs). I tried both soft and hard, and tried several different types of shoes-- usually one problem would be cured, and then I'd deal with something completely random (the IT Band was the last straw!).

When I switched to flats (cold turkey), my feet and ankles were extremely sore the first 3 months. Not painful, but sore to get out of bed in the morning. As I said on the podcast, I had faith it would work and the soreness would go away, which it did. I could tell my foot mechanics were getting better over time because there was less wear on my shoes and I didn't slap the ground anymore (I pronated so bad on my first pair of flats that they were slanted inwards after only 200-300 miles... this happened less with each subsequent pair). I progressed up to 1000+ miles per pair. I added barefoot running (5 min. to start, on grass) after 3-4 months of wearing flats-- this helped tremendously. I now do 20-30 min., 2-3x a week in the summer (less when it gets colder). I'd say it took about a year to fully transition, so patience was important. I developed a lighter step and learned to land more under my center of gravity, midfoot (I was a heavy heelstriker and overstrided previously). The change in mechanics had a dramatic effect on my body as a whole-- I simply felt better and 100% healthy. 5 years later, I still feel great. I can't say whether everyone would have the same experience, but it's worth trying.

I started this process in June. I am running 50% in flats and 50% in a ds trainer. I would agree with your pod cast , this first thing you notice is the change in stride length , and a higher cadence on normal training runs.

Congrat of your summer J1.

What would the luna trainer be classified as? I'm a light neutral runner who wears soft orthosis(mainly for the metatarsal support they don't have any control just support).

I trained in the zoom elite and when I run in the luna I feel so much better; my hips and legs never get tight. I run intervals in flats with no orth. or in spikes when I'm on the track.

It was "much of a race" with all those 2:40+ women?

The Minimalist CULT is too often guilty of minimalist thinking.

Please, by all means criticize the minimalist cult. Use your experience, physiology, quotes of others. But call a poster a charity runner, we'll need to have your marathon PR. There are only about 100 men and women in the country with better PR's and I suspect the other thousand of people with fast PRs in the country might take offense (let alone j1).

If you do have a fast PR, then your just an a$$hole.

Congrats on bringing down the only all training post that I've seen in a while.

Yo duncecap, she held herself up as an example. In doing that, she opened herself to any and all criticism as a result. She wanted the attention for her accomplishments and it is not unfair to apply personal perspective to those accomplishments. So you think one guy's an asshole, but how is the person he's responding to not self-righteous?

You call someone with a 245 charity runner.

I suspect you must fall into the category of marathon walkers if that is true.

I think the minimalist is crazy for about 90% of the population, but calling someone on letsrun a charity runner is the foulest language possible (not that there's anything wrong with that...HAHA)