What workouts should I do by myself to complement my coaches workouts?

Sounds like you want to go behind your coaches back and form your own plan for training?

I'll give you props for being dedicated enough to really think about your training. Speaking as a coach, why not ask your coach what you should be doing? Have you actually sat down with him/her yet to discuss exactly this? At least give them the benefit of the doubt.

I would love it if more of my runners thought about their training in this sense, and really could self examine what they thought about it. Most just blindly accept what we do without question. At the same time, that's probably because I try to talk about what we do daily and why we are doing what we do.

You want your private training to complement what you are doing with the team, and you need to keep in mind that there are many "right" ways to train properly. Many coaches out there and many opinions as to what's right. Bottom line is there is no "right" answer. That's the fun of it. If there was, we'd all be doing the exact same thing!

Biggest thing for any high school runner is to GRADUALLY increase what you are doing over the long haul. If you do the same things you did last year, you will keep getting the same results.

pootietang wrote:

it's disapointing to know that kids that were slower than or equal to me are now faster than me, undoubtedly due to superior training.

undoubtedly due to superior training? do you actually know what they have been doing, or are you just assuming that they're doing something different than you?

bite me wrote:

undoubtedly due to superior training? do you actually know what they have been doing, or are you just assuming that they're doing something different than you?

It's not like I got excommunicated from my team after I left. I still talk to most of my teammates almost daily, and whenever I visit I always make sure to run with my team. Their training blows my current schools training out of the water. My old coach actually had a running philosophy and every workout had a purpose that he made clear to us.

I really wish I could sit down and talk to my coach and he'd listen to what I say. But that's not gonna happen. He's an old, stubborn redneck and refuses to listen to what I say. My first year here I bought him a copy of Tim Noakes' Lore of Running. He returned it the next day and said he liked the part on heart murmurs. Last year when he found out I was just doing a 4 mile easy run before school some days he freaked out and told me I was going to burn myself out. When I first moved here I asked him why we weren't doing tempos and fartleks. He didn't know what they were and when I told him he said they sound dumb.

I just came off of a great summer of training, summer of malmo style. Last weekend I ran a 10 miler at close to the pace a tempo run would have been for me last year. I think I could accomplish great things this year, but I don't want to leave it up to my current coach. I'm going to have to depend on myself to get things done. I was hoping that some of you guys with more experience and knowledge about running could help me come up with a training plan for early dismissal. Thanks

I wouldn't add workouts. Though racing twice a week and using intervals as a third hard day is a pretty poor way to train, trying to cram in more workouts is just going to make things worse. If you have extra time and feel like you are being undertrained (MUCH MUCH MUCH better than overtrained), than I suggest just adding miles to your weekly regimen. Sometimes running a few more miles helps more than changing your workouts.

HS running where I live is a little different than in places like TX where you're racing twice a week every week, but if Tuesdays are dual meets, I suggest running them more like tempo runs than actual races. You're not going to get far if you're going all out twice a week every week.

Finally, I know HS coaches are often a pain in the ass, but try and make the best of it. Try to avoid conflict as best you can and don't be sneaking around your coach's back. I know it sucks, but in a lot of situations you can either follow the coach or quit; Trying to do your own thing behind the coach's back can cause more problems than it's worth.

I hear what you are saying about the coach. A lot of coaches will come on here and tell you to 'just talk to the coach about it.' The problem is that these coaches (on letsrun) are probably good coaches, who have no concept of how bad some coaches can be.

It sounds to me like you are saying that you want to run right before practice, right? But from what you wrote, it sounds like your coach will freak out when he sees this - which he will, since you will be just getting back from a run/shower when practice starts.

So here's my advice. Start doing morning runs again, but this time don't say anything about it to anybody. Do them from home and put in 30-45min everyday with some strides when you feel good. Use you early release to get homework done so that you can either go to bed earlier or simply enjoy your evenings more when you want to go out. The morning runs should be part of everyday life, and not something that anybody else needs to hear about, but the benefit to you will be huge.

Are you sure your coach hasn't just had more success with low mileage guys opposed to high mileage guys?

Many coaches don't understand that everybody doesn't respond to the mileage the same.

If you've performed better with higher mileage, increase your long runs or begin morning runs again.

This is all a calculated risk considering this is your last shot at highschool.

You're racing twice per week

One interval workout a week

this is what i would do:

use the races as tempo runs (run the last 800/mile hard if you want). use the interval day to practice your goal pace or whatever faster pace. let everything else be real easy running. do strides often. do easy morning runs if you want.

bite me wrote:

You're racing twice per week

One interval workout a week

this is what i would do:

use the races as tempo runs (run the last 800/mile hard if you want). use the interval day to practice your goal pace or whatever faster pace. let everything else be real easy running. do strides often. do easy morning runs if you want.

So essentially just add mileage and use races as fartleks and tempo runs?

o.O wrote:

So essentially just add mileage and use races as fartleks and tempo runs?

and do fast 60-100m strides with full rest (2-3 minutes). you want to have as fast of top end speed as possible.

Thanks for all the great advice.

I'm going to try to run a little in the morning. My coach really hasn't noticed that I've been running before practice yet, so I'm going to continue to keep doing it. In response to o.O, I doubt my coach even cares about mileage, and he's never had much success either way. Besides myself, the max mileage a guy would run during the season is probably 30 miles.

The next two weeks we do not have a meet.

I'm assuming he will structure the weeks so that the hard workouts are Tues/Thur, or Mon/Wed/Fri. I am also in a unique position this coming up week, because I only have practice Wednesday and Thursday. How should I structure these two weeks?

I will try to run my weekday races as tempo runs, but I really hate to lose.

Basically, what I think I want to know is, what are some fundamental, essential workouts for high school cross country runners that I am currently missing out on this program.

Thanks

you need to shorten the rest on the coach's interval workouts, and do some extra intervals. he can't really be keeping that close attention to all of the runners and counting everything. alternatively, you could speed up considerably on the jog rests, making the workouts closer to fartleks or cruise intervals. vary the length of your tempos. don't worry about winning every race if you're racing twice a week and you're serious about improving over the whole season. then get in some hills, plyos, 90 minute plus long run, progression runs. 1200-2k intervals. 200s for speed development. and of course give yourself easy days, based on how you feel, so that your hard days can have high intensity and you can recover adequately.

My Strides usually consist of my completing them and walking the same distance back to where I started.

Try treating your midweek races as "time trials" instead, where you run at CLOSE to max effort, but instead of RACING, focus on hitting perfectly even splits (until the last lap, if you want). Remember, a race does the same thing for your body that a hard session of intervals does. Your coach is going to notice if you slog your way through a 5k in 19:00 on tuesday and then bust a 16:30 on Saturday.