LONG STEADY RUNNING only in BASE PREPARATION.

Why waste time Pete? Why spend weeks losing speed and then spend months trying to get it back again?

What purpose would that serve?

The purpose is to build a solid aerobic base. That takes longer than building speed. And depending on the distance you are preparing for aerobic conditioning is WAY more important than speed. Not to say that you don't train for speed but there is a time and place for that. It just ain't in the base phase.

I think you are repeating a commone misconception. It doesn't take long to build a solid aerobic foundation. At the most six weeks and during that six weeks you should do some faster paced running.

Why spend months doing what only takes a few weeks?

Running fast is all about maintaining an economical stride, that is what takes a long time to develop. Developing aerobic fitness is easy. A few weeks of easy/medium and hard training (at the very most unless you are extremely unfit) and you reach a plateau of aerobic fitness, beyond that, aerobic fitness doesn't improve much, no matter how hard you train. What improves over time is economy economy economy. That's what it's all about man.

pete.. wrote:

General preparation or base preparation does not involve anything specific to the event.

Anything specific to the event diminishes the ability to develop the general training.

It's hard to know where to start here. Maybe the physiology/motor-learning pros can give an explanation without getting upset.

I might give more of a response later, but suffice it to say that the first sentence quoted above is dead wrong, and the second sentence is absolutely incorrect.

I honestly think this may be a troll attempt, in which case I award 9/10--it certainly got *me* going!

For crying out loud, Lydiard opened and closed the book on this years ago. Haji knows, and the other poster is evidently clueless on the aerobic base being developed. Do those capillary beds take years to develop with the elevated heart pump pressure or not? Not to mention the ancillary development of temdon and ligament tissue in a non-catabolic environment. Case closed.

competitor wrote:

For crying out loud, Lydiard opened and closed the book on this years ago. Haji knows, and the other poster is evidently clueless on the aerobic base being developed. Do those capillary beds take years to develop with the elevated heart pump pressure or not? Not to mention the ancillary development of temdon and ligament tissue in a non-catabolic environment. Case closed.

Still good for a review.

Well, I suppose if you are going to do steroids, drugs or certain 'supplements', maybe there are short-cuts to the development?

How hardcore is your "only"? Are you ruling out what one might call moderate tempos or upper range of aerobic efforts? Short sharp full-recovery reps and/or strides? Are you talking about literally or figuratively staying below a certain HR without a moment's exception?

Seems to me it's not an either-or proposition; there's a whole scale of possibilities. Insisting on absolutely nothing outside LSD - for a runner with some years' experience, not some adult rank beginner - is too fundamentalist for me, and I'd suspect not borne out by the experience of millions *or* (for those who care) science. For my money, if you're gonna be that fundy, you may as well also adopt the Fam hairstyle so you can at least entertain the rest of us.

wellnow wrote:

I think you are repeating a commone misconception. It doesn't take long to build a solid aerobic foundation. At the most six weeks and during that six weeks you should do some faster paced running.

Why spend months doing what only takes a few weeks?

Running fast is all about maintaining an economical stride, that is what takes a long time to develop. Developing aerobic fitness is easy. A few weeks of easy/medium and hard training (at the very most unless you are extremely unfit) and you reach a plateau of aerobic fitness, beyond that, aerobic fitness doesn't improve much, no matter how hard you train. What improves over time is economy economy economy. That's what it's all about man.

Wow. Lydiard would tear you a new one.

lease wrote:

pete.. wrote:

General preparation or base preparation does not involve anything specific to the event.

Anything specific to the event diminishes the ability to develop the general training.

It's hard to know where to start here. Maybe the physiology/motor-learning pros can give an explanation without getting upset.

I might give more of a response later, but suffice it to say that the first sentence quoted above is dead wrong, and the second sentence is absolutely incorrect.

I honestly think this may be a troll attempt, in which case I award 9/10--it certainly got *me* going!

I have to award you high marks for your own troll attempt, purely based on my gut reaction to you as well, nice work.

So we have counter-opposed ideas on this - perfect.

If you are Lydiard style - then base training is for the base and not for anything that comes after that (although natural tempo and fluidity are retained).

If you are Soviet trained then General Preparation is defined by its terms - general and preparation. General is the opposite of specific and is used for this reason ie no specifics.

Of course if you prefer a complex style or a complicated style then mix it all in together all the time - sure this is an approach just not my preference.

back at ya lease

Pete

please dont squeeze the garmin wrote:

How hardcore is your "only"? Are you ruling out what one might call moderate tempos or upper range of aerobic efforts? Short sharp full-recovery reps and/or strides? Are you talking about literally or figuratively staying below a certain HR without a moment's exception?

Seems to me it's not an either-or proposition; there's a whole scale of possibilities. Insisting on absolutely nothing outside LSD - for a runner with some years' experience, not some adult rank beginner - is too fundamentalist for me, and I'd suspect not borne out by the experience of millions *or* (for those who care) science. For my money, if you're gonna be that fundy, you may as well also adopt the Fam hairstyle so you can at least entertain the rest of us.

Garmin - 'Only' is hardcore in that it is the FOCUS. Sure paces above the upper limit for this focus should occur - strides is the main example although the occasional faster burst during a long run or efforts required up the hills also can occur, but they are INCIDENTAL and not the FOCUS.

No faster tempo runs, no faster reps on the track, not even fartlek yet. It's all about the steady pressure on the system. Alternating pressure is for after this has been strongly established.

by the way what do these colloquial terms fundy and fam mean?

pete

Bump for a training thread among all the trial threads.....

bump

Um, all those long miles are done for a number of reasons. First and formost, your Gizzard will not respond well to speed if you have not gone through a lot of long lonely miles. But the reason most people know for those months of long miles is because of the affect they have on your Dorsal Aorta. The Dorsal Aorta (DA) overstimulates if you have not built it up through lots of long miles. The best training is doing those long miles slow for a while and then slowly increasing your pace over the same miles until you are pushing hard over that distance. When you do it that way your DA supplies Gluto-Oxo-4-Iotid (GO4IT) steadly to your Superior Vena Kava which returns the favor to your legs. To develop this favorable body function you need to do the long lonely miles.

Gerry wrote:

Um, all those long miles are done for a number of reasons. First and formost, your Gizzard will not respond well to speed if you have not gone through a lot of long lonely miles. But the reason most people know for those months of long miles is because of the affect they have on your Dorsal Aorta. The Dorsal Aorta (DA) overstimulates if you have not built it up through lots of long miles. The best training is doing those long miles slow for a while and then slowly increasing your pace over the same miles until you are pushing hard over that distance. When you do it that way your DA supplies Gluto-Oxo-4-Iotid (GO4IT) steadly to your Superior Vena Kava which returns the favor to your legs. To develop this favorable body function you need to do the long lonely miles.

This post has that nice nutso quality that I enjoy. Well played, sir.

"In conditioning training, you can never run too slow to improve oxygen uptake; but you can run too fast and run yourself into trouble."~A. Lydiard

Obviously you've never done a quality speed session.

No, what is obvious is that Lydiard, even when in the grave, speaks volumes evidently incomprehensible to those without the ears to understand.

Obviously you don't know who he is.