Can I run a 3:30 marathon by november?

No

NO!

Hell no!

Long answer...Yes!

Try 90 minutes at 9 minute miles for six days, then a three hour run at that 9 minute pace on the seventh.

If you can handle the roughly 80mpw mentioned above for three months, you can bump that up to 90mpw taking two of those 90 minute runs and turning them into 2 hour runs.

In 5 months you can take a couple of your 90 minute run days and add a late afternoon or evening run of an easy 45 minutes to one hour and that will put you into the triple digit territory for weekly mileage.

If you don't believe in my formula for LSD then ask Joe...

http://joehenderson.com/longslowdistance/

You will not be twenty pounds overweight come October.

Remember, there is no substitute for mileage. What you do on marathon morning will be decided by what you do in the next 150 days.

Test races?

A ten k in 3 months? Try for sub 44.

A ten miler in 4 months? Try for sub 1:14.

A half at least 21 days before your full marathon?

Try for sub 1:39.

Then you will be qualified for Boston 2009.

Its pretty simple really. Get off your fat ass and train like a man. Maybe you'll succeed and maybe you won't, but your comment about not wanting to waste your time unless you know you'll break 3:30 shows you're already a loser.

Ante up wrote:

Its pretty simple really. Get off your fat ass and train like a man. Maybe you'll succeed and maybe you won't, but your comment about not wanting to waste your time unless you know you'll break 3:30 shows you're already a loser.

Ha!! Well, I may be a loser for other reasons, but I wasn't clear about what I meant. I don't mind putting in the training time and effort necessary. I will do this.

I was talking about the actual race taking too long. I just don't want to end up being one of those people spending a long time out there on the marathon course slogging to a 5 hour marathon. That's far too much time to be running and does not sound very rewarding to ME. I love running, but I don't love the thought of slogging for 5 hours. That's what I mean by a waste of time.

Probably won't happen. I'm your age, did similar mileage, got slayed by the marathon beast - twice. You can't build up to the 80 mpw off your base (as recommended by some of the above) without totally breaking down unless you are a freak of nature. Even if some of your shorter races (10K, 15K, half-marathon) show that you *could* run a marathon in 3:30, it will still likely kick your butt. I'd recommend shooting for a sub 1:45 half in the fall. That's doable IF you ramp up to 40 or so mpw this summer and hold it. Then build more in the spring and summer, shooting for the 3:30 next fall.

That 80-90mpw plan is even more exuberant than my lofty 3:30 goal. Did I forget to mention that I wanted to actually stay alive through this experience? Is that amount of mileage really necessary for a piddly 3:30? I thought my plan of 60mpw was already stretching it. I have no problems running 80mpw IF my body can handle it. I'll see how I feel after a couple weeks at 60.

I like your test race schedule.

I actually already was planning on running a 10k in 2 months as a test to see where I am at.

taking your mileage from 20 to 60 in 5 weeks will almost certainly land you on the DL

ramp it up slower and see what happens

drop the extra lbs. as well

I think 5 months is too ambitious, but you never know

Mr. Spock.

Well, your answer was logical. That's probably the smartest thing for me to do. However, I feel like "going for it" and see how I respond in the next few months. The odds are I'll end up wishing I took your advice. But, sometimes in life one just has to let loose....

Youll be able to do it if you put in the training. You obviously used to be a pretty quick (IMO) guy so you know what its like to run hard and push yourself. Just dont go crazy like everyone on here would recommend by running 100 mpw! Work up really slowly and dont think that you need a magic number of miles to get your goal, just be consistent. Plus youll be able to run a lot better after losing some of the xtra weight your carrying around. I followed on of the Hal Higdeon training plans for my spring marathon a couple weeks ago with good results...look into one of them just for some structure ideas. Good luck!

been there, done that wrote:

taking your mileage from 20 to 60 in 5 weeks will almost certainly land you on the DL

ramp it up slower and see what happens

drop the extra lbs. as well

I think 5 months is too ambitious, but you never know

Sigh....Most of you more "cautious" types are probably right. Does it help that the 20mpw, even though slow, seems effortless and I have no aches and pains?

If you want to go for it then by all means do it but from personal experience bumping to 60 mpw would put me down...although I never have been a high mileage guy. Got by with a 248 marathon on my 40 mpw because I knew personally that im not quite ready for 60-70. If your gonna build up to 60 mpw, you should consider doing it a bit slower..plateau at 40 for a couple weeks and see how you feel, then 50 and see how you feel, then go to 60 if you think you can take it. 5 months is a long time to build it up, your better off starting slow and not getting injured then diving in and getting injured. At least thats how I see it.

as a fellow "old person" i did a similar thing - ran a couple ugly/unpleasant marathons/death marches after just 4-5 months of training. i really wouldn't recommend it, but it was what got me into running and i 100% understand why you want to do. i didnt get anywhere near 60 MPW and trained horribly due to total ignorance. looking back, and knowing what i know now i think i could have done it in 5 months.

here's what i'd do if i did it all again.

start running every day - just 3-5 miles (or at least as many days as you think you are going to run when you are doing your 60+). then increase mileage each day until you are comfortable doing about 50mpw (say 7x7 miles)- i found that's a much easier way to inc mileage than to add days later.

do that for 1 month/6 weeks then go find some suitable 3-4 month marathon plan (look at hal higdon, or for something more aggressive either daniels of pfitzinger). pick a plan that you think will stretch you, but doesn't look unachievable. stick with it, and run the prelim races to assess fitness and set your race goal based on them. you probably wont have the right base for any of teh plans so you may need to get creative in ramping up during the early phase.

typically you would get the mileage under your belt then add in the real workouts - you don't have a lot of time so you'll probably be going further and faster at the same time which is when you get injured.

long runs and tempo work will be key for you. i wouldnt worry about any fast speedwork or you'll be just asking for injury.

good luck!

Yes - but I think trying to ramp up to 60 mpw would lead to injury. Past a certain age & weight - Less is definitely more. Find a program that peaks around 45 mpw and stick to it. Toss in some speed, some hills, and perhaps a race half-way through and also the occasional salad and it is infinitely possible.

dream on wrote:

I was talking about the actual race taking too long. I just don't want to end up being one of those people spending a long time out there on the marathon course slogging to a 5 hour marathon. That's far too much time to be running and does not sound very rewarding to ME. I love running, but I don't love the thought of slogging for 5 hours. That's what I mean by a waste of time.

You have other choices besides 3:30 and 5 hours. If 20 mpw at 9-10 pace is easy now, then you can realistically get to 3:45-4:00 shape in 5 months.

It would only take you five hours if you went out at 3:30 pace when you're not in shape for it.

I had a similar goal. I was 49 and aimed for Boston qualifying (``3:36) for my first marathon. I fell a few minutes short but was conservative about pacing for my first and probably left some time on the course as a result. I started with a higher mileage base than you (%%30/week) but with less inherent talent (I never ran sub 2:00/800).

Are you 20 lbs over civilian weight, for example are you now something like 185 @ 5'10"? Or are you 20 lbs over your youthful running weight, e.g. 165 @ 5'10"? If it's the former then you can reasonably expect to lose most of if not all of it. If it's the latter then you'll have a hard time losing much if any of it. Whether you can achieve your goal will depend a lot on that difference. Only eliminate the excess from your diet and add quality. Low quality calories like ice cream, beer, chips, etc. are the slack. High quality protein and nutrient-dense whole foods must not be sacrificed or you'll wear down. I managed to lose about 12 lbs during training (high 160s to mid 150s), a little less than a lb a week, without suffering, just by eliminating sweets and chips from my diet.

Injury (and over-training) is your biggest risk. If you can make it to the starting line healthy with as much mileage as possible under your belt and with your belt as small as it will go (see previous paragraph) then you have an excellent chance. I agree completely with skipping speed work, intervals, etc for someone of your age and relative inexperience. Focus on mileage. Run it as slowly as necessary to get it done without injury. Ten minute miles in training when your goal is eight minute marathon pace very reasonable. Better to train too slowly than too fast and end up on the sidelines.

Good luck!

Resistence is futile...

don't fight it and stop your complaining...

just do the LSD for the next 5 months and running 8:00 minute miles over 26.22 in November will be not only survivable, but enjoyable.

Everyone's looking for shortcuts and easier ways of doing things...there is no other way.

Don't waste your time racing on the track or doing speed workouts, you are building endurance and that requires 2, 2 and a half and 3 hour runs. At a slow pace your body will handle it and adapt.

Put in the months and the miles and your body will be stronger than it ever has been.

It's a win-win deal for you. If you start training you will lose weight and be healthier. You may run sub 3:30, but may not. Living longer trumps a time goal....give it a try.

Best of luck to you; I wish you well.