German's coach: 4:00.29 off of no speed work (!)

Everything about that post is wrong. Especially the name.

Im hoping the post was a joke.

Hwy 6 wrote:

Hate to be the spoiler here, but when a kid starts running full time less than 2 years ago, stops playing soccer and gets down to 9:05 in less than 6 months, and runs 8:34 a couple of months later 2.5 hours after a 4:00 1600, I don't think the secret is in his training: this kid is one of those rare individuals who is talented beyond imagination and born to run.

Bingo. He could play basketball for 30 minutes everyday and still be one of the best high school runners in the Nation. It's pointless for people to ask "What does he do?" in hopes of replicating his success. Some people just got IT.

Why is it conventional wisdom that speedwork at any particular pace necessarily equates to being able to race a particular pace? There is correlation, to be sure, but I don't know that the causal link is as strong as most people seem to think.

In my view, the idea of training is to build a variety of systems and to have those systems optimized on race day. So, if an athlete can build the same sort of lower leg strength and turnover doing :30 200s, why should an athlete do :28 200s -- other than to make him feel better about himself. More to the point, if doing :30 200s allows the athlete to do better workouts for building another system, such as upper leg strength or aerobic capacity, then the slower 200s actually would allow the athlete to have more complete/better developed overall ability. In most other sports, good training involves spcific work on specific muscle groups -- football players don't train day-in-and-day-out by playing full contact games.

The world is full of "Workout All-Americans" -- Well-trained athletes are much more rare.

From the article, it sounds like this kid is a dedicated athlete who is unbelievably fortunate to have a ton of natural ability and a coach who is knowedgable and sensible -- and who appears to be able to draw out the best in his athlete.

He may be able to set a national record in the 2 mile, but I don't see him taking down Webb's 3:53 in the mile. Plus, his strength is his strength. 2mile national record? Or one of several HS'ers under 4:00 in the mile? That would be an easy choice for me, too. Go for the record.

AdamLocked wrote:

Hwy 6 wrote:

Hate to be the spoiler here, but when a kid starts running full time less than 2 years ago, stops playing soccer and gets down to 9:05 in less than 6 months, and runs 8:34 a couple of months later 2.5 hours after a 4:00 1600, I don't think the secret is in his training: this kid is one of those rare individuals who is talented beyond imagination and born to run.

Bingo. He could play basketball for 30 minutes everyday and still be one of the best high school runners in the Nation. It's pointless for people to ask "What does he do?" in hopes of replicating his success. Some people just got IT.

playing soccer AND playing basketball year round = running full time

no no no wrote:

playing soccer AND playing basketball year round = running full time

i agree. soccer alone is pretty close to running full time AND it's YEAR ROUND (school teams, club teams). I remember my high school soccer team would be doing regular 8 mile runs for conditioning. Some of the serious teams practice two or three times a day. The same with basketball (minus the 8 mile runs). The combination of the two has to give you a tremendous aerobic ability.

I started mixing in a day of soccer on a full pitch with a club team last summer every wed. I would take that day off from running and after 90+ minutes i'd generally be a lot more worn out than I would be after an 8-10 mile run. So yeah, if someone has been playing soccer and basketball for a few years, it's just as good as if they were running all that time.

I always thought that Europe had us beat in distance running because soccer can act as a feeder sport for T&F and XC. Granted it pulls away a lot kids that could be good runners, but...

If a kid plays soccer but realizes he just isn't skilled he can move over to running. Running doesnt require much skill, but it requires athletic ability and the desire to compete.

In the US the the two big sports fball and basketball are 1000x removed from distance running.

I heard he carried 50lbs weights in each arm on regular training runs. then when he finished he shot putted them 75 feet. He is super human

i am not saying he isnt talented but i bet he was doing more that 2.5 miles in the morning which means he is probably doing 70 mpw. which is a lot more than your average high schooler these days, that is why his times are so good. lets just be honest if a lot more high schoolers started doing 70-80 mpw a lot more people would be under 9 minutes for 2 miles

hard work wrote:

i am not saying he isnt talented but i bet he was doing more that 2.5 miles in the morning which means he is probably doing 70 mpw. which is a lot more than your average high schooler these days, that is why his times are so good. lets just be honest if a lot more high schoolers started doing 70-80 mpw a lot more people would be under 9 minutes for 2 miles

thats not fully true high milage works negatively for some people rather than positively, especially in high school.

You are attempting to make a sweeping generalization that is blatantly just speculation. Are you trying to justify your "slower" times because of lower mileage. Attempting to put yourself on the same level as German talent-wise? And lets just be honest - more high schoolers would be getting hurt and blowing up if they started running 70-80 mpw. Raw talent will show no matter how many miles you put in - perhaps a few more miles gets half the guys that are already sub-9:05 under that mark, but it would make the other half non-existent in a year or two. Just stop trying to make German out to be "every other guy" who just does more miles - it's not that simple.

hard work wrote:

i am not saying he isnt talented but i bet he was doing more that 2.5 miles in the morning which means he is probably doing 70 mpw. which is a lot more than your average high schooler these days, that is why his times are so good. lets just be honest if a lot more high schoolers started doing 70-80 mpw a lot more people would be under 9 minutes for 2 miles

Yes, if a lot more high schoolers did 70-80 mpw, we might see more sub-9 times. However, Fernandez isn't just a sub-9 guy. He is an 8:34 guy. That is INSANE natural talent right there. He times are that good because he has an ungodly amount of ability combinied with 70-80 mpw.

So you are a 9:50 guy running 35-45 mpw? If you went up to 70, maybe you'd run 9:25. For the sake of argument, lets go crazy and say you'd run a 9:15. You do realize how far that is from 8:34, right? That difference is called talent.

I enjoyed the interview, but how much must be talk about German? This is only about the 20th thread on him in the past 2 weeks. The kid is incredibly talented, works very hard, seems to have a good coach, and everything seems to be working for him. All this debating over everything else seems a little trivial.

Sort of... wrote:

So you are a 9:50 guy running 35-45 mpw? If you went up to 70, maybe you'd run 9:25. For the sake of argument, lets go crazy and say you'd run a 9:15. You do realize how far that is from 8:34, right? That difference is called talent.

that is the worst method of conclusion. seriously? the kid has been training his aerobic system from the time he was little (playing soccer and basketball). And as far as the "talent"/"genetics" to handle so much work? That also comes from being on his feet so much doing those other sports for years. Also, many running injuries come from weaknesses and imbalances. Playing basketball and soccer works just about every muscle from the stomach down. That's where he got his durability. The rest of the difference is hard, smart work. There are no mythical magical genes. We are all very very similar (barring disabilities).

I think the thing that everyone seems to be missing here is just how mentally strong German is. yes he's trained well, and yes he has a solid coach with a good sense of what he should be doing. But you've gotta admit, especially given German's lack of lifetime miles and all the setbacks, that he's got a mental game that's tough to beat. It'd be so easy for him to have thrown in the towel after the recent injury and just shoot for winning at Sections, State, etc... But he came back ready to break records, despite having missed valuable training. His attitude and confidence, even given his setbacks, is amazing and accounts for a big part of his success, i'd guess. Talented? yes! Well Coached? Yes! Mentally solid? VERY MUCH SO!

hard work wrote:

ok, here is to all you who said he is all natural talent.

he is doing 12 workouts a week which probably means he is doing at least 75 and at most 90 miles a week! that is about double what i do and i am a 9:50 2 miler. id say that with a lot more miles we can all bring our times down and stop making excuses. or at least i can stop believing the excuse.

The most mpw he has ever done is 72.

I know its attractive to think that everyone can be the best, that all it takes is hard work and you too can be a stud, that your potential is under your control.... but it's not true. Not at all.

Curious Chris wrote:

I know its attractive to think that everyone can be the best, that all it takes is hard work and you too can be a stud, that your potential is under your control.... but it's not true. Not at all.

Where's your evidence? How are you going to back that up?

I'll just counter with an equally supportless claim:

Dont get me wrong. I do believe that not everyone can be the best. But I do not think that the genetic, physical limitations affect us until we get close to the world record level. For instance, any normal human being can break 5 in the mile. I don't think that everyone can break 3:50 in the mile. Down there is where the little imperfections might take hold, but to say that it's impossible for some normal people to run under 4ish for the mile or 9 for the 2 mile is absurd.