I think he was refering to Jon Phillips, who had run somewhere in the area of 30:06 the spring before and didn't begin racing until late in the season for them last year
I think he was refering to Jon Phillips, who had run somewhere in the area of 30:06 the spring before and didn't begin racing until late in the season for them last year
That is exactly who I was referring to, he beat Hany indoors in the 5k placing 2nd in 2007, Hany may have overall been NYU's best distance runner, but Jon was a very close 2nd, not having him at anywhere close to his best and still winning was an impressive feat.
[quote]well.... wrote:
Calvin should've been a lock not by virtue of the rankings which clearly are always a huge guessing game, but by the fact that they returned runners who placed 5, 12, 17, 31 and 51 in 2006. That is four all-americans - if those runners could've just equaled their placing from last year they would've ruined NYU and everyone else.
But the point is, teams are never locks, because so much can happen between seasons that you never really know what things can look like. Cortland brings
Results from 2006...
5 3 Jed Christiansen, So 26:52 Calvin
12 8 Jon Gries, Jr 27:08 Calvin
13 9 Jon Phillips, Jr 27:11 N Y U
14 10 Hany Abdallah, Jr 27:13 N Y U
17 13 Erik Van Kampen, So 27:21 Calvin
22 16 Jesse Schneider, So 27:26 N Y U
29 23 Ryan Williams, Jr 27:35 N Y U
31 25 Nate Dehaan, So 27:36 Calvin
47 34 James McCarthy, Jr 28:00 N Y U
51 38 Tad Hulst, Jr 28:04 Calvin
I know hindsight is 20/20 but it is tough to say that Calvin should have been a lock for last year. I think a lot of people just had trouble seriously considering a bunch of guys from NYC that underperformed at previous Nationals except that one year. Now I think people realize that they are the real deal and are giving them more respect (maybe too much) this year.
Also, I think many people would argue that Phillips was there top runner returning. He might not have had the times that Hany did but he could flat out race. If he had finished next to Hany in 2007 this NYU team would have been dominate like the Calvin team of 2006.
I really could not agree more, with almost everything you say, the only thing I disagree with is the NYU underperformed at previous nationals. Their first nationals in ages was 2006 and they came in second, after not making it the year before (hany was 9th as an individual though), then the next year they win. Why were they not given respect...I have no idea maybe people did not know phillips and mccarthy were back, I have no clue.
As for this year. I have said it countless times, NYU has a good team....great team - no, good team - yes. Will they make nationals - probably, will they be podium - probably not. Will they win the UAA which they dominated the last two years - also doubtful. Why do I think this? Here is my reasoning.
Reasons against them being a Great team - they lost 4 of their top 5, plus some others (I count Jon in their top 5) and it is very difficult to replace that.
Reasons they will still be a good team - Jesse is going to be right in the front at nationals, he is a superb runner, and they have had depth in the past. No these new guys (new to you) are not Hany and Ryan but they are good in their own right and most coaches would be happy to have them. Speaking of Coaches, NYU's Coach has proven himself, yeah his guys have underperformed at times, but they brought home the title that mattered to a team that has very few athletes under 800 meters (Their top 400 runner should/is really be an 800 guy). And just look what he did with their girls team in just a month or two after taking over the program - they went from abysmal to nearly respectable.
My prediction - UAA 3rd, Atlantic Region 3rd, Nationals 15 ish
daniel larusso wrote:
atlantic region is gonna suck...
nyu is losing a lot
tcnj is gonna blow...
their top runner from last year guerrero quit
st. lawrence didnt' even make nationals last year and they lose donohoe
geneseo cross country program got cut....
i talked to cortland's top guy shamus and he said that their new coach is a former canadian football coach (cfl) and expects all of them to gain 50 pounds each...
RIT no longer runs and has found a new passion in long distance cartwheel racing
NJCU will wipe the floor with everyone
and kosgei is going pro
going back a few pages on the thread, i am not sure i understand the geneseo cross country program got cut comment. as far as i understand they're alive and kicking unless i am misinformed.
Look at that post again please...are there any other things that seem a little far fetched as well...?
oh yeah...
and everything else with that post is accurate? ha
there are only two true statements made in that post
oh? wrote:
oh yeah...
and everything else with that post is accurate? ha
there are only two true statements made in that post
Is one of them RIT and cartwheel racing?
clearly
What does everyone make of the Boilermaker results?
3rd at UAA? CMU beats them, but who else? I can't see Wash or UC doing it.
cortland looks very good
kosgei looks ridiculously good
Cortland could be the team to beat if:
1. They stay injury free;
2. They can stay focused mentally with the departure of Coach Moran;
3. They respond well to the training regime of their new coach (or new distance coach as they'll be trained by curent track coach, Steve Patrick).
If I were a betting man, I would bet that they'll do o.k. but one of the three factors will be their undoing.
They should still be easily a top 10 team (if they peak and compete as well as they did for Moran).
Go Red Dragons!
they look so good, but you speak the truth. those are some pretty big ifs. even assuming they continue with the workouts and typical training that has brought them to where they are, a lot of success comes from coaches who know their athletes. i'm not saying their new coach isn't good, but it takes time to understand how certain guys respond to certain workouts.
CMU def beats NYU, as for the other team, I could see it being any of the 3-5 teams from last year, so either CASE which I think returns everyone, or nearly everyone including Smith who I think is up with Jesse and Brian Harvey for the the Individual Title, Emory, which had a young squad last year or Brandeis which had a pretty young team as well. Wash U had an unusual down year last year and Chicago in 8th seems a bit out of whack. UC should be better than 8th but I agree that second does not seem likely although they do have some young talent.
kibitzer wrote:
Okay, practices start in, what, six weeks? Who's got the good/great incoming classes? Who's having a notable summer of training?
Augustana has a lot of depth, and a good recruiting class led by these 2 runners from illinois:
Mike Strasser- 14:49 xc 3mi, 4:20 1600, 9:22 3200
Billy Wisser- 15:07 xc 3mi, 9:30 3200
NYU usually gets a bunch of studs or semi-studs from new jersey (not a whole lot from NY usually), and CMU has been on here falating themselves over their own recruiting class so I would say they each offer up a 920's 2 miler and a low 4.20 miler. Also Williams seems to always get a sub 4.20 guy or two. Also I believe another North East school picked up a sub 4.19 guy and a 4.22 high schooler who was injured last year.
ROFLMAO! Case? You have to be smoking some pretty crazy stuff to think they could do anything. Hell, they'd be lucky not to get the 10 last places in the meet, let alone actually beat a team.Besides Case in DFL, I see CMU and Brandeis competing for the UAA championship with NYU in third.
post Master General wrote:
CMU def beats NYU, as for the other team, I could see it being any of the 3-5 teams from last year, so either CASE which I think returns everyone, or nearly everyone including Smith who I think is up with Jesse and Brian Harvey for the the Individual Title, Emory, which had a young squad last year or Brandeis which had a pretty young team as well. Wash U had an unusual down year last year and Chicago in 8th seems a bit out of whack. UC should be better than 8th but I agree that second does not seem likely although they do have some young talent.
Dude what are you talking about, Case came in 3rd place last year, returns most of their team including the 3rd fastest finisher in dominic smith who if my memory serves me is only like 18 years old. But yes I do agree it will most likely be CMU and Brandeis going for the conference title.
North Park has an amazing incoming class too... look for them to be in the mix