need advice from experienced coaches/athletes (malmo/jtupper?): weight training for long distance runners?

You've got to find what works for you. My personal opinion is that lifting is of no help to anyone racing the 3k and up (maybe even milers). I think that running-like plyometric exercises (bounding, skipping, hops, etc) are a much more productive use of your time, but are still no replacement for high-quality aerobic training.

Others on here believe that squats, leg curls, and calf raises are the way to go. Some people will have you doing forearm curls and bench press because "faster arms mean faster legs" (tell that to Halberg). Some guys are into body weight stuff like dips, pullups, and pushups.

As for what the pros did, I know that some very successful middle distance guys like Sebastian Coe DID lift, and that other very successful guys (like Lydiard's boys) never lifted once during their training (they did do hill bounding). I'm also fairly certain that most kenyans/ethiopians do not lift. Correct me if I'm wrong.

At the end of the day, feel free to experiment, but most people will acknowledge that if your options are lift more OR run more, the best choice is obvious.

get this book and read it....Periodization Training for Sports by Bompa. Everything you ever wanted to know about lifting and sports is in that book. which includes running: from middle distances all the way to marathon.

now i know reading a book will take some effort, but what makes more sense: asking random people on a thread who most likely has less of a clue than you do on the subject matter or reading a very accepted/credited book in the sporting world?

"Don't waste time flinging weights around..." - A. Lydiard.

The faster and longer you want to run the more important strength becomes. Power to weight ration is what you should be looking for. My recommendations come from a personal and theoretical background that our lifting should compliment our running technique. Running technique being the priority and strength increased as secondary objective to increase our speed and staying power. Strength without optimal running technique is strength that is not fully utilized. Our entire body is being used while running so having a good general tone and strength is appropriate for our entire body. IMO our legs provide the propulsive effort during our running and the arms are for balance and counter-balance working synergistically with the timing of our legs/body leaving the ground. Here are the lifts/exercises that I would recommend as general essentials for a runner that will compliment his/her running:

*Core/abs(planks,crunch,back extensions,etc..)reps between 15-50 each exercise.

*Leg lifts(Squats,Box Steps,Jumps with weights)reps 10/8/6 increasing weight every week until goal max is reached.

*Arms(extended arm fly's standing,lying on stomach and lying on back. Directions side, front, back)reps 10-15 with increasing weights each week until desired goal reached.

*Plyometric Jumps(jump rope, box jumps, bounding,etc...)Rep 15-50 each exercise.

*Flexibility exercises(static stretching, dynamic stretching, yoga stretching, etc...)

BTW: Legs and arms performed once a week, Core/abs and Plyometrics performed twice a week, Flexibility everyday or every other day. Each session will take between 15 and 45 minutes.

"Don't waste time flinging weights around..." - A. Lydiard.

Arthur Lydiard knew less than nothing about weight training and had no appreciation for its benefits.

If you want to do lifting then do high resistance and low reps (a weight such that you fail on the 3rd, 4th, or maybe 5th rep is good). ie, improve your explosive power.

Sets of 10+ reps will not help. Those are for muscle hypertrophy. Not what you want.

Read Bompa's book. I also believe in plyometrics for the whole body.

the dude with the funny hat wrote:

If you want to do lifting then do high resistance and low reps (a weight such that you fail on the 3rd, 4th, or maybe 5th rep is good). ie, improve your explosive power.

Sets of 10+ reps will not help. Those are for muscle hypertrophy. Not what you want.

why would a long distance runner focus on short bursts of explosive power? thats for sprinters isn't it?

thanks everyone, though. i will check out that book.

I really think that weight training is dependent on the runner. Realize what your weakness are (core, legs, abs, etc) and just focus on that when you go to the weight room. Some runners who are already "big" and stronger than most, I think should spend less time in the weight room and would get more benefit spending time running instead.

People who say "runners don't need to weight train" are very close-minded. Not all runners have the required power/strength as every other runner. Some guys are just stronger, maybe not from lifting weights but maybe from playing other sports in their youth. Our best runner on our college team raced mountain bikes for many years. He never lifts weights but has very strong legs and calves. And then guys like myself who primarily ran distance even when young, have very poor strength compared to an average runner.

"Run Strong", edited by Kevin Beck, is a good resource that is more runner-specific than Bompa. Lots of good things to think about in terms of core strength and the kind of exercises that really assist in running.

Scootchie Pootchie wrote:

I also believe in plyometrics for the whole body.

Sorry, there's just no way I could ever take advice from a guy named Scootchie Pootchie.

Explosive power has dramatic benefits from the standpoint of running economy. I'm too lazy to look up the reference right now; I might post it in the future if this thread keeps going strong.

One way to think about it is that pushing off the ground takes less than 0.2 seconds, even for a marathoner. That is explosive power. Once time a lecturer pointed out to me that the only athletes who take more than 0.2 seconds to push off the ground are high jumpers doing a Fosbury (sp?) Flop (they take about 0.21). For everyone else, in any sport, explosive power is important.