5 Key Marathon Workouts

Is there any sense in running over 10 hours/week for a non-elite runner? I'm a (just) sub 3 hr marathon runner, weekly totals vary between 8-12 hrs with 2 workouts, a midweek w/o of 20-24 km, and a week-end w/o of 30 km. Both workouts include intervals of about 1-2 km at HM or MPace.

Other days I try to double to get my km up to 100-120.

Would it be better to add more km or do more/lengthen the intervals?

If it's of any importance, I' m 55 yrs old, been running seriously since 6 years, averageing 4000 km/year.

Damn I can't type today. The mileage has fried my brain...I was going to say:

The OP has no "Mottrams" (testicles). He doesn't state his (or her) name or the improvements he or she has made under this system.

Consistent 24 milers every week will beat the living hell out of you. In every one of my PR marathons, including my first sub 2:30, first sub 2:25 and first sub 2:20, I've run at least one over distance run about a month before the marathon. I usually go somewhere between 44km and 48km, moderate pace by feel. Needless to say it takes me a few days to recover after an over-distance run.

My over-distance day is this Friday here in Japan. I plan to go about 44km.

Your "system" fails for being too mathematically precise. REAL training is not so formulaic. It's better to go by feel. Sometimes it's good to do an all-out 10 miler or 10km. Sometimes it's good to do 10x1000 very very hard.

If you can't attach your name to your little formula and tell us what you've achieved off this, then why post it?

Jason

Jason

The guy gave some good, sound advice on marathon training. Nowhere did he say his method is the only way to train or that his rules were hard and fast. He offered some free tips that can probably help 90% of the readers of these forums.

This is his reply to someone asking for his name and credentials, from about page 3 I believe it was:

"I choose not to tell you who I am or what my qualifications are beyond I am a certified coach with vast experience as a runner and a coach. I feel no need to as I am asking nothing of you and am not seeking any new coaching relationships beyond giving friendly free advice.

I could list for you my qualifications, education, and certifications and tell you about my career as a runner and as a coach. But I know coaches who have just a much education, have run times similar to mine as an athlete and have coached some elite level runners (although these runners didn't progress under them) and I think they are bad coaches (although nice people). So what does that tell you? Nothing.

Instead on this thread you have enough information from me on marathon training to judge my training approach for yourself. If you think it has merit then fine you can adopt some or all of it into your program. If you don't think it has merit then also fine, you can move on to another thread. For those who do think it has merit but want to ask follow-up questions then I'm happy to answer them within reason as I have been so far on this thread.

To the runner who keeps posting about 24 mile long runs not being necessary. We disagree then. Fine. Certainly we can both name examples on both side of this issue (as I stated earlier). But trial and error by myself, my athletes and many others has led me to my current opinion regardling long runs and how they are used in my programs. If you can do it differently and have success then good for you. Do what works for you.

MPR "

Hi Jason, I had heard rumors that you had died a while back. Glad to see they weren't true.

Question for you though - why bring up a thread from over 2 years ago and start hating on it? Strange thing to do.

Anyways, good to see you still alove and kicking.

- SS

Rumors that I died? Now that's a new one.

What I can't stand about this message board is people getting on here and telling people "exactly" how to train without stating their names and what kind of improvements they've had from their system.

www.666energy.com wrote:

Rumors that I died? Now that's a new one.

What I can't stand about this message board is people getting on here and telling people "exactly" how to train without stating their names and what kind of improvements they've had from their system.

Jason, Damn it, really is good to hear you are still kicking it. I guess that rumor must have just been about your running career. Well at least you have stopped that nasty run of DNF's.

Anyways, simple answer to your problem. If you hate the message board just stop coming back. Sure we'll probably start a rumor that you've died again, but you'll never even know it.

Best of luck in whatever it is you do now-a-days,

SS

Because he is Jason Fn Mayeroff, that's why.

Thanks for resurrecting the thread with your ranting, Mayeroff. Thanks to MPR for some really solid, simple advice. I have used variations of all five key workouts under another, unnamed coach (don't freak out), and improved from 2:34 to 2:30 in two training cycles.

The only thing I would say about the 24 miler is to avoid doing it on the roads, to avoid incurring unnecessary mechanical muscular damage. Otherwise, it's an essential workout.

common wrote:

Thanks for resurrecting the thread with your ranting, Mayeroff. Thanks to MPR for some really solid, simple advice. I have used variations of all five key workouts under another, unnamed coach (don't freak out), and improved from 2:34 to 2:30 in two training cycles.

The only thing I would say about the 24 miler is to avoid doing it on the roads, to avoid incurring unnecessary mechanical muscular damage. Otherwise, it's an essential workout.

How many of the 24 milers did you run and at what point in your training? I'm eyeing a comeback marathon next year and will use some of the advice in this thread to build my program.

I know MPR and he is a great coach. His approach is very balanced. I have no doubt that he'll be more well known in the future. For now the sessions that he prescribes are pretty helpful, IMHO.

I just found this thread and plan on basing my next cycle off the knowledge contained in it. I doubt I will be able to get the thread going again, but I had some questions that maybe someone could help me out with.

MPR mentioned a 15-16 mile simulation run that the Hanson's do 5 to 6 weeks out from the goal race. I am currently signed up for the NYC half-marathon, with Boston being my goal race. The half is 4 weeks before the marathon. My first question is, would it be a bad idea to attempt the 15mile race sim. say 6 weeks out and then do the half marathon (which I plan on running hard) 4 weeks out?

Also, for the 10 @ 85% and 10 @ MP workout. If I am able to hit this early in my next block, would I be better off increasing that length I run, or the pace? Hope that makes sense. Thanks

MPR = maximumperformancerunning.blogspot.com/

You're welcome.

Internet sleuth - thanks for figuring that out. Hopefully this thread will find new life, as MRP's writing in this blog is just as helpful as earlier posts here.

I just read his training system/philosophy page, and it's very well done.

http://www.maximumperformancerunning.com/media/MPR

$20Training$20Philosophy.pdf

Doing the simulation 6 weesk out and the half marathon 4 weeks out should be fine.

On the 10/10 workout, increase the length rather than the pace if you can handle more, your marathon segment should be 100% to 101% of marathon pace. But be sure that the effort level is correct, not racing workouts.

Good luck.

- MPR

good thread, bump.

"A 24 miler is key? Not many people would agree."

+1

Doing over-distance-runs ?

Havent heard about any pro doing that. The regeneration process is way too long and running more than 2h adds little value to the training...

your training advice looks weird. Im not saying that it doesnt work, but most couches would not agree with your workouts.

Anyway , its nice to see people who have a different approach and go their own way.

Dom wrote:

"A 24 miler is key? Not many people would agree."

+1

Doing over-distance-runs ?

Havent heard about any pro doing that. The regeneration process is way too long and running more than 2h adds little value to the training...

your training advice looks weird. Im not saying that it doesnt work, but most couches would not agree with your workouts.

Anyway , its nice to see people who have a different approach and go their own way.

The Japanese frequently run very long runs and didn't Flanagan get up to like 30 miles? You're right in that not many couches agree with this method because they'd rather have you sitting on them instead of going out and actually training.

but dont you think that such runs are too devastating for the body ? It takes much longer to recover from a marthon distance than from a 30km run. That is I guess the reason why not so many runners are keen of doing bigger distances.

I understand that such runs simulate your future marathon run much better and let you learn how your body reacts while running out of glycogen (and so on) but then , still, unless you have a damn quick recovery process, it will put you out from normal training for at least few days (if not longer).

Dom,

You may have noticed that I say earlier in the thread (from several years ago) that I don't recommend these lengths for people doing mileage below 70 per week.

For people above 70 miles per week and especially for those doing 100+ per week, a 24 mile easy paced long run is not overly taxing, just another good stress workout that can be recovered from with a coule of easy run days.

MPR