Balancing Rec. Running and Lifting for Size/Strength

Try Jogger's Earth.

Thanks.

dont go away stupid wrote:

Try Jogger's Earth.

Thanks.

The guy said 16:30 not 19:30.

Sorry OP. I can't really offer you too much coherent advice. The main thing with lifting weights is to avoid over training. You can grow big training too little, but training too much will make you lose muscle every time.

Grow big training too little?

Good question. I'm 5'7", 148 with no distance aspirations anymore. I run and lift. Right now I do a "long" run a week (only an hour or so), a tempo run or a hard hike with a weighted pack, and a work-out of 8 or so 400 m repeats. I mix this with lots of core work and a couple upper body sessions.

My goals are to be able to dead-lift 415 pounds (I can only do 315 now), do 25 quality pull-ups (not too far off from this), bench press 225 (got a ways to go yet), and do 100 push-ups. I want to be able to still run 17 or so for 5k.

!?! wrote:

Grow big training too little?

This sounds like an infomercial setup, but ok I'll explain.

You can lift weights only once a week or even every other week and still gain some muscle. Training too little will still give you gains compared to training too much.

I've considered this for a few months myself, although I haven't decided to drop running just yet since I'm only 24. I'm starting a program that's 3 days a week of compound lifts.

Here's the link:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224

It seems basic enough for me to handle, but I don't expect to gain any weight while putting in 80-90 mpw. My main goal for now is to increase my strength a bit since I'm ridiculously weak right now, and if I ever drop running, I'll up the intensity of the weight training.

As for your goals, I think you'll need to drastically cut back on running, and in particular, easy running. Perhaps run 3-4 times per week and make the runs short but intense, or do interval work as another poster mentioned. This will help burn any fat you may gain from lifting and eating a lot. Also, keep your diet clean so you minimize fat gain.

I am training for both as well.

And i am a competitive swimmer. All taken i train 16 hours a week.(10 swimming + 6 in the gym or on the track)

tempo runs + train for strength first.

And never do longish vo2max workouts. Going over 92% of mhr for 20 minutes is bad. Stay below it. You could do 1 hard anaerobic workout a week but don't think of three of them.

Idemdito goes for the longish runs.

165 pounds is not unrealistic for 5'11" to still think of running well, it is getting very muscular and to that weight that is the challenge.

Lt runs are still the best bang for the buck in my eye. They are not as deadly on the muscles(even upper body) as long runs or vo2Max workouts and they are going to get you far more in shape then easy runs at 8 minute per mile pace.

4 workouts a week should suffice in weights.

Just train for the bench press as goal. 160 pounds could make you look like a freak with the right bench power.

My target is a 300 pound bench press. I will at least look like i could do it as well...even if i only gain 10 - 15 pounds.

get a look at this bodybuilding profile:

http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/Fitnesskid44/

That is what i am after but i will have to weigh 10 pounds more then that kid with a bit more fat for health to get there. He has a workout schedule there as well.

But in general all you need now is lift decrease your running. The muscle will come.

krike wrote:

get a look at this bodybuilding profile:

http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/Fitnesskid44/

That kid may be the 430 miler of the bodybuilding community.

I ran the Richmond marathon in Nov 2007 at 170 lbs. In January, I started lifting every fifth day as crosstraining. In two months, I gained 13 lbs. Also during that time, I had to cut back my running due to an achilles issue, so I was burning less calories. Watched the carbs and fat and increased proein intake.

Weight program was basic. Heavy weights, five sets of five reps and compound movements. Just did squats, bench press, deadlifts and either bent-over row or chin-up.

Ate a lot of plain chicken and protein shakes

Mike, you forgot to mention your result in marathon- or at least a comparable slowdown to your pre- weightlifting days. I would be genuinely interested what 13lbs of healthy weightgain might do with someone's marathon times.

And also, how much were you running at 170 lbs while training for that marathon in comparison to when you cut back and started lifting?

Short Answers:

Bulking up while doing aerobic exercise?

1. Depends on your genetics and your body type.

2. Usually I\'d say no.

3. Since you have been a good runner and thus likely have the usual runner body type then I\'d certainly say no.

4. You can\'t expect to gain massive bulk while doing an hour of cardio a day.

5. You can try it and see, you\'ll probably gain weight anyway from not running as much, but a lot of it will be fat.

6. I\'d expect a total muscle gain of 5-10lbs over the course of a year while continuing to do a lot of aerobic activity.

Decnet level of running while 15-20lbs heavier. I\'d say about 1:30-2:00 slower in the 5k. This is just personal experience from being fat and out of shape from time to time.

Look at above links to get a good start, but in general:

1. Start with a 4 day split: Mon/Thur Upper, Tues/Fri Lower. Two exercise per body part/area. 6-8 exercises total for a total of 45-60 minutes. Lift in rep ranges of 6-12. Don\'t worry about going lower than 6 for now. Lifting for mass is all about heavy volume...not just heavy weight. Start with 3 sets work up to 4 or even 5 sets. 5 sets of 6 reps would be brutal, but if you can do that without losing strength (ie: without having to drop the weight) you will be huge.

2. Move onto 5 or 6 day splits. Work on one body part per training session.

3. Use \"shocks\". Explained on abcbodybuilding. Basically supersets and anything else that forces you to lift a weight while fatigued: supersets, drop sets, forced reps, negatives, etc. Example:

Day 1: Chest

a. Bench Press (4 sets of 8, 2 drop sets: will need a spotter, once you reach failure at the 8th rep, have partner take off 5-10lbs and then continue to failure, then have partner take off another 5-10lbs and then continue to failure)

b. Pec Fly 4 set pyramid: 6 8 10 8 6

c. Incline Press 4 sets of 10

d. Cable Cross 4 sets of 10

e. Decline Press 4 sets of 10

4. As seen above. Work the muscle in as many different angles as you can. Work the muscle in as many different rep ranges as you can.

To gain mass you have to eat more. You will eat more than you ever did while a runner. To gain mass you have to eat. You have to have the building blocks to gain. You need lots of protein. 1 gram per pound of bodyweight. So, if you\'re a 150lb runner, that\'s at least 150grams of protein. Use shakes and protein bars if you have to. Buy lean meat from the store.

Expect to gain quit a bit of fat while you are lifting. Go through cycles where you are lifting to get big, then lifting to lean down. For getting leaned down go with circuit training, 15 reps, include cardio (jumping jacks, short sprints, etc) in your circuit. Say 3-4 months of heavy lifting, then 1 month of leaning. Something like that.

Good luck!

Alan

6'0" (actually less body fat % at 163):

144 lbs = 2:09 800, 4:40 mile, 16:12 5K, 2:38 mar, no climbing, 12 pullups at age 22

162 lbs = 2:06 800, 4:22 1500, 16:32 5k, no mar (<-- all these times in early-mid 40's), now climb 5.13+ rock, 25 pullups at age 50

Training up to and over 100 mpw had NO effect on weight (sometimes went UP a little !), but slight decrease in upper strength due to decrease in that specific training. I can maintain upper body strength at 50-70 mpw, it's a matter of proper scheduling. Lots of sleep and good food.