altitude living and training is overrated

drsmrtypnts wrote:

Thank you for your valuable input, an esteemed physiologist such as your self would surely be able to provide us with some of your work on this topic? If not, maybe some of your colleges work on this topic.

jtupper wrote:

Here's all you need to know about altitude training from none other than Jack Daniels:

jtupper RE: How many US greats trained at altitude? 4/1/2003 1:20AM - in reply to Frank Rizzo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Having a great talent train at altitude doesn't prove anything about altitude training except that it (probably) didn't produce a negative reaction. Once it is the "in" thing to do then everyone with good talent wants to make sure they aren't overlooking some little thing so they hop on the band wagon. Some improve, some don't. Typically you don't hear about the ones who try altitude training and fail, because who cares. So, those who get better (for whatever reason) are accepted as having benefitted by altitude. So a guy who leaves a hot, humid, stressful life at sea level goes to a cool, dry, relaxing altitude site for awhile and gets better --must be the altitude, right? How many American women are beating Joan Benoit Samuelson's US marathon record (set many moons ago)-- maybe we aught to all start living in "oceanside" tents.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=105694&thread=104055

1) I look at altitude training as a type of training. Similar to deciding to increase your mileage -- for some gong up to a considerably greater mileage is a positive experience, others may encounter trouble. Some benefit from including more fast stuff in their usual program, some benefit from altitude. You typically hear about the runners who do something new and make a significant breakthrough, but seldom hear about those who do the same "new" thing and don't benefit.

(2) I've seen runners follow different altitude programs and improve, or not.

(3) We had success with several weeks at altitude (living and training there)

(4) We had more success when we spent a few weeks at AL then a week at SL then back to AL and back to SL, etc. Ryun flew down to SL after 3 weeks at A:L and broke the WR in mile the same 24 hour period. Did the same thing a week or two later in the 1500 WR race (with a 61 first 400 and 2:49 last 1200). We had 6 subjects in that year's study (live and train high, spend a week at SL and repeat) and those 6 set 14 PRs back at SL (some in rarely-raced distances, but positive experiences none the less)

(5) We had a group of elite swimmers, who were all tested at SL then half trained 4 weeks at AL while the other half did similar training at SL. In post-training tests the AL group increased VO2max 5.6% and the SL group improved VO2max 6% -- both improved in that sense during their training camp. In SL races, the AL group swam 11 PRs and the SL group swam 4 PRs. Is that significant?

(6) As a result of many altitude studies I have taken part in, the most certain comment I can make is that if you train properly you won't be hurt with some time at altitude. Is that a chicken way of saying it will make you better? However, I have seen some not get better, but was it the altitude or the individual's attitude about being there, or being away from a more comfortable environment?

(7) Regarding live high, train low, on a daily basis (as opposed to living and training high and then going low for awhile, which is what I prefer), the two methods hav enot been compared. I know that we had similar improvements (if not more) with the live and train high model compred to what others have had with the daily up and down regimen.

(8) I tend to not put much stock in the loss-of speed and power thing for those who live and train high. I think training can be adjusted to prevent that, or time at altitude can be put into the overall program at a time when speed is not the issue

(9) If live high and train low is better than just being there and training, I am a little worried as to how much faster the East Africans will get when they start doing that. I may be missinformed, but I don't think they do -- don't they just live and train at altitude then come down for some time?

(10) Being in a comfortable environment is important, and for some that may work well, not gong to AL for others, the change may be a relaxation in itself. As is the best measure of who is the best 1500 runner the one who wins the race, so is the benefit of altitude associated with the runner who performs better as a result of using it (not always whose VO2max or blood chemistries show the greatest change)

Chad Johnson, Oregon Project:

MR: How do running for Hanson's and the Oregon Project compare?

CJ: I feel like they're somewhat similar. When I was at the Hanson's we did a lot of mileage and a lot of strength work, tempo runs and long repeats. Here, now that I'm training for the marathon, I've been doing a lot of the same things — a lot miles, a lot of long tempo runs, 15 by 1k, nine times a mile, stuff like that — real strength work. Like at the Hanson's, here we have a bunch of guys who are really fit and all have the same type of goal.

MR: Do you think too much attention is paid to the altitude rooms, underwater treadmill and all that, and not enough to the hard training you guys do the and good coaching the project provides?

CJ: Yeah, sometimes I get frustrated with that. Right now, I'm training harder than I ever have in my life and sometimes people think we're running well because of all the extra things we have here — the altitude, the treadmills or whatever. Those have always been thought of as something extra we can do. We never want to interrupt our normal training; anything we do is on top of our training.

http://www.mensracing.com/athletes/interviews/chadjohnson03.html

Zika Palmer, Founder of Zap Fitness

She has a B.S. in Biology from Emory University as well as an M.S. in Exercise Science from Appalachian State University "The Oregon facility is the ultimate facility, they don't sacrifice anything there," Palmer said. "I kind of believe there are no secrets or shortcuts. It just comes down to hard work and dedication. Either you are going to be a superstar or you're not. You don't really need any special gadgets."

http://www.zapfitness.com/AP%20April%20Article.htm

Vin Lannana, Head Coach, Stanford University

Distance runners in the USA are poorly prepared for the rigors of international competition.

Harder work will produce greater success. Our problems now stem from lack of work, not lack of science.

jtupper wrote:

My primary concern is that we don't just conclude that without altitude training you don't have a chance of reaching the top. I must admit I have seen every possible result of altitude (probalby not every one, but many of them). I've had subjects spend 2 weeks there and have a complete career change -- from an also-ran to winning the 10k at Penn Relays; from a conference champ to Pan American Champ and the Olympics. I watched Jim Ryun fly to SL after 4 weeks at altitude and break the world mile record (the day he flew down). I had another conference champ spend 5 weeks at altitude, not improve his altitude time for 3 miles by more than 5 seconds, then went to SL for 2 weeks, came back to AL and improved that altitude time by 34 seconds. I've had swimmers train 4 weeks at altitude, improve SL VO2max by 5.6% and their counterpart swimmers (who spent the same 4 weeks training at SL) improve VO2max 6%. I had 5 subjects run 14 SL PBs after 6 weeks at altitude (living and training at 7500 or above). I've seen subjects crass and burn at AL (usually from over work because of so much free time). I believe it can be a positive experience and I would use it myself, but I am not certain it can make you any better than could otherwise be achieved, with good training and comfortable surroundings at SL.