Ryan Hall's Only Flaw (Training)

You take yourself way too seriously. Good thing no one else does.

the op makes a sound remark. canova says that from year to year, you will likely improve at the same workouts, simply from having adapted to a certain w/o performance, but that will not necessarily mean that you will race faster. however, if you can hold the same pace for longer, you will be doing a better AND a new workout. canova talks about starting the tempos at around 12 minutes and extending to 30-40 over time, and similar principles probably apply for marathoners.

There is a time and place for faster and for longer. Without more indepth knowledge of Hall and all of his training (which onlu he and his coach has) it is impossible for you or I to say which is needed.

Given their track record for preparing him for his races I trust they are doing it correctly. We shall see come Sunday.

I don't think so. If you are still training at the same marathon pace then yes you would increase the length of the run but if your marathon pace has changed then no.

He is also doing these tempos now (at least the one online) AFTER a 12 mile moderately paced warm-up- I mean, 5:45 pace for 12 miles is a solid tempo for most humans, but then to go into a 10 mile tempo at 4:5- pace seems to be doing a little extending AS WELL as getting faster.

He also has another marathon paced workout where he runs 60-90 minutes at marathon pace with the standard warm-up and cool-down. Training is outlined in a Running times article.

i cant believe everyone is picking hall to win, what about experience? Lel should dominate, he knows how to win these marathons, hall is good, but it takes more that two marathons to know how to race it, and anyway, wanjiru is a better runner than hall, and the older guys are at least as fast and know tactics much better

their track record is actually very inconsistent. I can recall four terrific races and at least three clunkers in the past several years.

1) U.S. 12K XC championship@VCP over Ritz

2) 1/2 Marathon American best of 59:43

3) London Marathon debut at 2:08:24

4) U.S. Oly Trials qualifier at 2:09:02

clunkers:

1) 15K in South Carolina? at 1/2 Marathon pace or worse.

2) Stanford track 10k in low to mid 28

3) 2008 U.S. 12K XC

granted that the heavy marathon training explains the three weaker results, hall was talking big before each race, about breaking williams' AR in the 15k, winning the 12k XC and many talked about Hall breaking the AR in the 10k. I don't recall if he raced 10k last summer, but in any case we shouldn't trust everything they do.

I disagree with you. I think tempos should be faster AND longer. Why? Because I think the duration should stay the same.

If you keeping making a tempo run longer, eventually it will reach a ridiculous length. 70, 80, 90 minute tempos? Likewise, if you keep speeding up a tempo, eventually you will be running at a pace that is not longer tempo pace.

Instead, find a duration that works for you - 50 minutes to use your example - and keep that and your effort constant. As fitness improves, you'll eventually be running faster at the same effort, and thus you'll be covering a greater distance. But it won't be overly stressful because it's still 50 minutes of tempo, as you'll always done.

Komon wrote:

As the London Marathon approaches along with the Beijing Olympic Marathon, training seems to be going quite well for the young American.

However, based on most research, and I am sure Renato Canova would agree, that perhaps it is a mistake that Hall has increased the pace of his long tempo runs. The key to marathon training lies in extension, not speed.

For example, if prior to NYC-Olympic Trials, Hall ran a 10M tempo at 4:55 pace at altitude, a progressive improvement upon that fitness and workout would not be 10M at 4:50 pace, but perhaps 12-14M at 4:55 pace. Extension is the key, not running faster, a common mistake among the American training system.

Just some thoughts, but I am looking forward to Hall attempting to break the field at 35km.

You´re forgetting one thing: if you want to win a race of London caliber, you have to be able to run the last part of the race faster than your average marathon pace. Nowadays, it´s not unusual for the best runners to run the last 5k in close to 14 minutes.

faster,

Do not forget that the tempo example provided is a ALTITUDE. Thus, Hall is running at a faster pace than you may think.

Longer tempos were the key to success with the programs for Deena Kastor and Meb Keflezighi, both earning medals at Athens.

But I will give you this, 2:06:30 may not win the race, thus Hall may not be fast enough (basic speed) to win.

sox wrote:

granted that the heavy marathon training explains the three weaker results, hall was talking big before each race, about breaking williams' AR in the 15k, winning the 12k XC and many talked about Hall breaking the AR in the 10k. I don't recall if he raced 10k last summer, but in any case we shouldn't trust everything they do.

Hall didn't do any of that predicting or talking big, that is all on here by posters. If Hall had broken the 10k record last year he would not have done so well in London. If he had torn it up in San Diego he would probably have had a poor showing this weekend. The 15k could probably be called a clunker but he recovered well and tore it up at the trials. He seems to have this marathon thing down so far.

BTW, he did race the 10k at Nationals last summer and ran pretty poorly.

obviously a tremendous performance from hall today.

I agree that a 10k record prior to London last year would have harmed the London performance, as he would have been spent. But a 10k record later in July, say, would have helped his development. Then again, he's run 2:06:17, so his development's fine.

12 miles at moderate pace and after 12 miles starting a 10 mile tempo run sounds like pretty good extension, and it sounds like that kind of workout is training his energy systems in the way they need to be trained in order to prepare one for racing the marathon distance. anyone would be hard pressed to find significant flaws in his training. i'm not saying theyre not there, but theyre probably minor since in 1 year he improved his marathon pr by more than 2 minutes(2:08:24 to 2:06:17). he looks stronger each time he races. and he's only 25. i wonder what he will be able to run when he is 28-30? 2:05:30? 2:05:00? 2:04:45?