Fukushi's Osaka finish video

I totally agree. The smart race on her part would have been to sit with the pack until 5k to go then try to break away or to stay with the leader until the track. To try to break away so early also disrespected her competitors.

You have to blame the coach a bit for those tactics. Also as I said during the race she should have dropped out at 20 miles when it was obvious that she was hitting the wall. Consider the difference in recovery time if she had dropped out early. i am sure she will be wasted for a month at least.

Regarding the question of it she was being overly dramatic... It was much more common years ago for many competitors to collapse when they crossed the finish line. It seemed to be a way to show that they had given their all. This is not as common these days but I remember watching many races in the past where the top competitors would drop like they had been shot once they crossed the line. At the university where I teach I often watch track practices. When sprinters run a hard sprint 300 or 400 they often collapse at the finish and just lay in the track. My cultural observation is that while it would be very poor form in the US it is a sign here that you are doing your best. Just a cultural difference in my opinion.

just a couple of things iaaf.org said her longest run before the marathon was 30k not 22k.

and a few marathons have been successful without long runs grete waitz set a world marathon record of 232 at the new york marathon in 1978 and she said before that race, that her longest run ever was 12 miles.

also mike musyocki saiid his training was a 1 hour run (usually 12 miles) 4 days a week, 1 track workout of 8-20 x 400 in 61-63 seconds and a race and an off day each week and he ran 21030 for the marathon, but he was much better at 10k-half marathon.

these are exceptions but it has been done.

i mainly agree with nobby though the bookstores are filled with books like, run better on less, no need for speed, get in great shape on 4 minutes a day, and the most important thing is rest. rarely do i see books how to run good on 80 plus miles a week, for best results workout at least 2 hours a day, 95% of the top people work very very hard. to achieve and people who want to do well will have to work similar meaning very hard to reach their potential.

I agree with Nobby 100%. I do everything in my power to soak up every bit of knowledge that I can from the Japanese (and Lydiard) when it comes to marathoning. I appreciate Seko's training schedules (thanks Nobby). I have also been to Japan over a dozen times and do my best to try to steal as much knowledge as possible (although they are often very closed lipped). From my personal experience I will say something that Nobby probably agrees with but is to P.C. to say himself.

FUKUSHI DID NOT PREPARE LIKE A JAPANESE MARATHONER. She prepared in the same fashion that we see many successful american "track athletes" prepare for the marathon. They assume that if they can run 31:00 min for 10k, that slowing down 30 seconds a mile and running 2:24 for the marathon will be a piece of cake. The marathon is far more than training like a 10k and adding a long run.

Pete wrote:

I ran my first marathon with a longest run of 12 miles, and my finish probably looked as bad as hers. And I will admit - without reservation - that I disrespected the distance in that one too. :-)

She managed to "disrespect the distance" in 2:40 or so ... not too bad. I wish I could disrespect it to that degree. :-)

I think she was laughing because she was thinking something along the lines of "holy shit, this is UNREAL!! I am SO fried!" I thought it was kind of cool that she could laugh at herself i n that situation.

After Nobuyuki Fujita left Wacoal, going on to coach Mizuki Noguchi, the team hasn't had much of a significant marathoner presence. I may be wrong but I don't think Wacoal's current coaching staff has a lot of experience coaching for the marathon, particularly not at the level of someone like Fukushi.

But, it's probably also worth remembering that there was some speculation beforehand that this was not a 'serious' effort. Fukushi has been constantly asked about her plans to move up to the marathon for the last few years but never expressed any interest or sign of motivation to do it in any interview that I saw. Since at least the Chiba Int'l Ekiden she had been saying that she wasn't really training seriously, so the hypothesis that this was only a token marathon to get people off her back may have some truth. In today's papers she's already announced that she'll be going for the 10k in the Olympics.

Having watched the race I don't think she went out too fast, but went out at the speed she can run without fear of the consequences. Too fast for her preparation, but not for her potential. But to reach that potential would take a level of commitment which I don't get the feeling she is willing to make, at least not now.

Brett,

Thank you for all of your reports from Japan. I go to your page regularly to see what is going on in Japan.

I hope you didn't misunderstand my post. I certainly feel like Fukushi is capable of a sub 2:20. She is an incredible talent. I just think that in order for that to happen she needs to view herself as a marathoner. From what I read that does not appear to be the case. Although, I have no inside knowledge whatsoever. If someone like yourself or Nobby were to tell me that I am all wet, I would certainly take one giant step backward on the issue.

Kevin:

You're all wet! I'm telling ya; you're all wet! ;o) What does that mean anyways? I hope it's not offensive??? You know I'm just joking! Are you guys still thinking about Sell running Ohme? Do you want me to help you out with anything with it?

Fukushi has been "Queen of Track" in Japan. She has been Olympics and WC several times and I believe highest she finished is something like 8th??? Now she ran her first half last year and ran 1:07 reportedly with "no special training" for it. That was Japanese and Asian record. She said something like "Running twice as long as that!? Unthinkable!" or "If I have 2 hours to run, I'd go watch a movie!" although her coach as insinuated her potential as a marathon runner...

Now as a marathon runner (and to be a success), I believe it would be advantageous to have a certain temperament. Lorraine Moller certainly had it; she had patience and confidence to stay back and let the crazy speedster do whatever they do. She won Boston that way; she won bronze medal that way. She won several of Osaka that way. On the other hand, Ann Audain probably lacked that. I think Audain had great potential to be a great marathon runner (her road race record shows) but she didn't. Someone like Baldini has "it". 2 years before Athens, I had a chance to meet him at NY. I told him that he's my pick at NY (he finished 6th) and I thought he was a huge favorite (one of) at Athens. I liked his style as a marathon runner. Fukushi doesn't seem to have that. Whether she discipline that or not is yet to be tested...

Anyways, so she went on and ran that "comical" 10k at Osaka, finished 10th. Reportedly, she got sick of finishing 8~10ish on track; decided to have a marathon a go. So, yes, I think she should have plenty of time to prepare for it okay. What I heard actually was that they were secretly hoping that she could make the Olympic team--that this was no joke for them; otherwise, she would most likely make the Japanese team for 10 and finish somewhere around 10th in Beijing again.

Of course, if I her "team", I would have set up at least a 2-year plan to move slowly up to the marathon. I think Noguchi's "team" had that plan and their strategy was to make her be a queen of half marathon first. If you look at her career, you'll see her doing lots of half marathons 2 years prior to her first marathon (Nagoya 2 years before Athens and a year before Paris WC)). I don't know how many Olympics/WC Fukushi has run but she's been going around the circle; she takes the lead; fades back and finish somewhere around 8~10th. It's like banging her head against the wall; her "team" never seems to have learnt anything! Let's face it; if you can't sprint; you can't finish well in the international 10k race on track. So IF YOU WANT TO DO WELL internatinally, you need to move up--marathon. And if you want to prepare for the marathon, you'll need to have a long term plan and work your way up in 2 or 3 years time. Apparently Deena had a period when she wasn't quite sure if she wanted to run 10 or marathon at Athens. If she decided to run 10, there's NO way in hell she could have won a medal in the mad dash sprint in the last lap! In the marathon, if there are 10 favorites, 8 of them would make mistakes (like Fukushi did). If you are the one who didn't make any mistake, then there's a chance to win a medal! That's EXACTLY what Deena did. Same with Lorraine in 1992. And as you should know, Kevin, that's what Brian Sell did at the Trial; and also what The Team Hanson did for the last 5, 6, 7 years; wasn't it? A long term planning.

doug burke wrote:

just a couple of things iaaf.org said her longest run before the marathon was 30k not 22k.

I think it was that her longest long run was 30k while her longest pace run was 22k.

Oops! Ohme's this weekend, isn't it? I guess it's a bit too late...

Brett in Tokyo wrote:

doug burke wrote:

just a couple of things iaaf.org said her longest run before the marathon was 30k not 22k.

I think it was that her longest long run was 30k while her longest pace run was 22k.

If it's IAAF, it's gotta be written by Ken Nakamura-san??? He's very legit and I trust his source. But at the same time, I wouldn't be surprised if her longest run alone being only 22k. I was talking to Tosa's coach last time I was in Japan and he was telling me some of training that they do. Tosa doesn't seem to do a lot of long runs but she does do a lot of running. But he seems to tell me whether she runs 40k fast or slow; or 25k fast or slow. In other words, there's no point of someone running up to 30k or 40k or whatever and say, "Well, we only ran 22k" fast or slow. I think 30k is kinda sorta border line and if she's gone as far as 30k... I don't know. Either way, it was not a smart move to go out like that when you're not appropriately prepared... If she has gone up to as far as 30k, more of a reason why she should have sat in the group and waited for the right moment. Then I'd say she has a definite temperatment issue.

Also, remember Takeyuki Nakayama? I believe his longest run was 30k. He might have done 30k back to back on the same day (I'd have to go back and check) but he didn't go beyond 30k in his single run. He was one of the greatest marathon runners; or I should probably say, he could have been one of the grestest runners; at that era. Had he gone further than 30k, he could have hang on and ran 2:07 or 2:06 at that epic Fukuoka marathon in 1987? Well, it was damn cold too... I think he ran sub 15 for 5k upto 25 or 30k! All by himself from the gun and ran 2:08:18 or something like that! I believe he posted three or four 2:08s one after the other. Potentially, he could have run 2:05 when people were still dreaming about it. Could he have achieved that had he trained longer distance? We will never know...

She laughed when she fell because it was funny. Maybe she is a fan of Kafka? Who knows.

I know when I crapped out in my first marathon I laughed at around 20 miles at pace. Then I was angry until maybe mile 24. Then I was determined as hell. Then I just had to laugh. There was no stadium track to circle at that point though.

honestopinion wrote:

it looks like shes hamming it up for the crowd in my opinion rather than running as hard as she could have...I've seen lots of people fall apart and they never look like that when it happens

WTF?? HAMMING IT UP??? YEAH RIGHT. GO SIT ON A RUSTY SWORD YOU IDIOT!!!!

The Japanese are the most serious marathon runners on the planet. My respect and admiration for Kayoko grew enormously just watching that video. It was hard for me to watch as well. At first I didn't want to watch it because I don't like to see people who I admire so much having so much agony, but I did watch it, and it made me want to cry. So much pain.

最近病気か

Nobby wrote:

Pete:

They (Fukushi herself AND her coach) knew what they should have done to prepare for the marathon. They chose to go up to "only" 22km but at the faster pace (3:10/km). That was their preparation for Osaka. Even Yuko Arimori publicly criticized, not only to Fukushi but also people around her, to allow her to enter the marathon and let her run the way she did with the longest (ever) run being 22km? Yes, I have run a few marathons; yes, I have bombed out as well. But I wouldn't have tried it if my longest run was 22k. On the other hand, one of Noguchi's favorite quotes is "(training) distance wouldn't lie."

22k for your longest run in preparation for a marathon is stupid. Most milers on my varsity team do longer weekly long runs.

I mean, come on... I'd like to have some of whatever they were smoking when they came up with the idea of the longest single run in training for a marathon would be 22k...

Her longest run was not 22km. From what I read it was 30km.

When Reiko Tosa ran and won Nagoya in 2004 to make the Olympic Team, her longest run was limited to 32km due to injuries. However, that's Reiko Tosa, a veteran marathoner and World Silver medallist.

Fukushi is extremely talented, but yes, apparently she did not prepare properly. Still, it was painful for me to even watch that video.

Interesting to note: Fukushi and Mizuki Noguchi live in the same city (Kyoto) and often train on the same track (the warm-up track at Nishikyogoku). Because of the team situation, they've probably never trained with each other, which is another bizarre aspect of the Japanese system. I wonder if they even acknowledge each other when passing in opposite directions on the river trail in Kyoto.....I doubt it.

Jason

Where in Kyoto is the track that they train on?

Kevin Hanson wrote:

Brett,

Thank you for all of your reports from Japan. I go to your page regularly to see what is going on in Japan.

I hope you didn't misunderstand my post. I certainly feel like Fukushi is capable of a sub 2:20. She is an incredible talent. I just think that in order for that to happen she needs to view herself as a marathoner. From what I read that does not appear to be the case.

Thanks, Kevin.

We're in agreement on Fukushi. I think it'll be a few years before she gives it another go, though.

She obviously made some rookie mistakes in both her training and race strategy but her willingness to throw caution to the wind may not make for consistency in a marathon career but may be evidence of the risk taker mentality necessary to achieve some world beating days.