B Trials Qualifiers Being Treated Separately than A Trials Qualifiers During the Race?

what makes the Central Park loop more crowded than B'Ham? Let me guess...you weren't at the Trials, and have never been to Central Park.

at times I think the average IQ on this board is considerably lower than their mileage for the week.

No I ran in the 2004 USOT in Birmingham and I've run in central Park for nearly 30 years. The roads in central Park are not going to be congested like one of those money making NYRRC races with 10K runners.

The roads are plenty wide enough to accommodate water tables for the B qualifiers.

I have to tell you after spending 8 years in the USAF, I know for certain that logistically anything can be pulled off if an organization puts its resources to work.

That's my point.

Best wishes to the NYRRC, and all of the participants @ the USOT 26.2 miler

Rich Byrne

Joe,I agree with you. I was being sarcastic about the selection process. the sysytem that we have works great! Now, if we can only ensure all qualifiers get their fluids.

Joseph McVeigh wrote:

Unfortulately, selection works best only if we have a time machine and can apply 20/20 hindsight. Pete Pfitzinger would not have been selected to the 1984 team but he was the top US finisher in the OG.

hmm...

the NYRR can handle 40,000 people running through 5 boroughs on Sunday, but they can't figure out a way to accommodate the needs of 150+ trialists on a loop course on Saturday?

rbyrne wrote:

What makes Central Park loop more congested for the runners then Birmingham? I mean the tables are standard size 10 x 10 or 12 x 12.

You are loosing sight of things--this is NYC--they can pull it off.

On a pt. to pt. course, you set up the tables (however many you calculate are needed), load them up, the runners pass by, grab their bottles, and you're done. Repeat every 3 miles or so down the road, so you might have 6-8 stations in the race.

Compare that to CP. W/ a 5 mile loop you will have maybe 2 stations. So, essentially, the same station will have to be restocked 3-4 times. And as the race goes on, it will take the last runners longer and longer to get there after the leaders. It might result in only 5-10 minutes to restock the tables, making sure you've got everyone's proper bottle in the right place (don't forget, some runners change what they drink as the race progresses). Much greater potential for SNAFUs.

JIMG,

Birmingham had a 2 mile loop, then 3 x 4.2 mile loop and it was done. I am telling you logistically it can be done! You know that!

Have any of the selectors for this race stepped up and told NYRR how this is should be handled? Was this part of the bid? If not then call them on it. Was $399 for the special negotiated Hotel rate also part of the bid or did the selectors also ignore this point? How about the $10 entry fee? Who is calling the shots? And who is allowing this to happen?

rbyrne wrote:

JIMG,

Birmingham had a 2 mile loop, then 3 x 4.2 mile loop and it was done. I am telling you logistically it can be done! You know that!

Well, actually it was a straight P to P to the loop, but point taken.

However, I think there were fewer qualifiers in '04 than this time (approx. 100 to 150). But the women certainly had more in '04, on a multi-loop course, and got it done. Of course, Dave McGillvray was in charge of that one.

Bottom line, you're right, it can be done. It might be a pain in the ass for the organizers, but it's just a matter of deciding to get it done.

Maybe not but TV Coverage certainly was part of the deal. I even heard Mr. Latimer complaining about how ridiculous it was that there was no TV coverage in Birmingham. Any bets he will defend the lack of coverage in New York?

I am a Trials qualifier and I have complete confidence in the NYRR and their ability to put on THE best race we have seen in a very long time. In my experiences with the NYRR they are far and away the best organized, most professional, and easily most supportive group of distance running in the country! Any bashing of them is unwarranted(in my experience) and disgusts me.

An example of their work is how quickly they dealt with the "B" special fluids problem and created a fix. They bend over backwards to accommodate the athletes at every chance they can find.

He better defend it otherwise he will not get his check in the mail.

agreed...NYRR has done more, and spent more $$$ on US runners than any other body (and even USATF). They will put on a great event, and from what I hear, the first half hour of the Today show will devoted to the Trials??? That is some cool national coverage.

That's my point they're a good organization that can pull off whatever needs to be done!

I don't know that I personally bashed them at all?

In addition they've been good to be through the years. My main beef was that they can and should provide the fluids program to all qualifiers. I believe the problem has been addressed and fixed.

Best wishes to all qualifiers and the NYRRC,

Rich Byrne

So what's the final word? Do I have to drag my old ass to the park to give out bottles at the wejo station or can I watch it on TV from my warm bed knowing the B ers will be properly hydrated by Mary and the boys?

Since Kaster has a Q time could she run the Mens trials under the current rules?

Don't you guys pay attention. Go back a page or 2 and read the updates.P.S. stop thinking they would even let you on the course.

wineturtle wrote:

So what's the final word? Do I have to drag my old ass to the park to give out bottles at the wejo station or can I watch it on TV from my warm bed knowing the B ers will be properly hydrated by Mary and the boys?

Since Kaster has a Q time could she run the Mens trials under the current rules?

I actually asked because I do pay attention. wejo told Mary W. that he would assist her in expanding the special bottle handling needs of the B boys using Let'srunners who said they would help if needed. I'll reword my question.

Does this plan of Mr. Grotewold and the NYRRC include using the volunteers that offered to work with wejo or is the NYRRC going with their own staff?

Here you go... you want to help? Follow the URL...

http://www.nyrr.org/about/volunteer.asp#

Fred and the club got a lot more than their allotted pound of flesh out of me already. The well is dry when it comes to the NYRRC.

Some Facts.

My wife and I were the organizers of the special fluids tables for the trials at Birmingham and St. Louis (and the National championships at Birmingham and St. Louis the year before.....and the women's trials and national champs in 1995, 1996, and 2000). Those of you who ran will probably remember me with the big gray beard and my wife with the long red hair.

Just after my wife accidentally found the USATF posting that only A qualifiers would get bottles Jim Estes called us and asked if ALL qualifiers were allowed to use special fluids at Birmingham......I told him they were. That is the only contact from USATF and we have had no contact from NYRR concerning special fluids. In his posting Sam Grotewald said they planned for 8 months before making the "A only" decision, but they didn't ask us.

We do think that supporting only A qualifiers violates the USATF "aide" rule.

To do it right, organizing the large number of bottles does take quite a bit of time and some work but it is not brain surgery......you just have to pay a lot of attention to detail.

The "system" has to be designed.......it isn't quite as simple as putting out "a couple of tables"....but again it isn't brain surgery. Table size, bottle spacing, bottle marking, table spacing, followup water stations, signage, and several other things are important. For example you don't want the five favorites to have their bottles all on the same table. NY did that a few years ago and the Italian favorite nearly broke his ankle and as a result DNFed

Table locations on the course have to be determined.

The runners have to be notified, the system described and questions answered.

Tables, bottles, signage, labels, water, replacement fluids, markers and tape have to be bought.

Runners have to "sign up" to use the system (so that bottle locations: table # and position can be established)......we gave them until one week before the race and then accomodated one or two "late" comers.

Bottle location assignments have to be made.

Space has to be allocated to collect bottles.....lots of space. Demo tables have to be set up. Location charts have to be made.

A deadline has to be set (and then some judgement used) Dan Brown was actually late in 2004 but I accepted his bottles.

Bottle collection has to be accomplished.

Bottles have to be stored and transported to the stations. In 2004 we didn't refrigerate the bottles....we told everyone we wouldn't way ahead of time. We don't recommend refrigeration in 2007.

Volunteers have to be trained about what to do and what NOT to do.

The stations have to be set up and "loaded".

After the runners pass the tables have to be "reloaded"

We hope that NYRR and Boston do it right.......Dave McGillvray paid a lot of attention to what we did at St. Louis so we think he has a decent chance. The lack of contact from NYRR, the "A qualifier" mistake and the Oct. 1 cut off date, makes us less confident that they will do it right....good luck.

Steve Mather