B Trials Qualifiers Being Treated Separately than A Trials Qualifiers During the Race?

sucka... wrote:

That's not true, if you hit the "A" standard in an event in track, you can run a different event, as long as it's within reason. Dig through the rules, it's in there somewhere.

That's not true.

So?

Some guys do not need to have USATF pay for their hotel/airfare if their club team is already sponsoring their trip...

to-may-to to-mah-to wrote:

Help me clear this up, because you're suggesting something that comes across really weird here. Are you saying that guys would not risk injury for free hotel and airfare, but would to have personal bottles at the race? That's some screwy prioritizing that you're ascribing to these people.

napali wrote:

Since this rule was announced just recently (after qualification standards had been announced) I would guess that some of the B standard guys perhaps eased up at the end of a marathon knowing fully that they had qualified for the trials with a B standard and that there was no need to risk injury just to hit the A standard.

Rundoe wrote:

They're "working on it?" What the hell does that mean? Is there some kind of Water Table Workers Union they need to pay off first?

It's the northeast we're talking about, so you might be right.

Well, it kind of is:For automatic qualification purposes only, the indoor 60m, 60m hurdles, mile, and 3000m distances are interchangeable with the outdoor 100m, 100m/110m hurdles, 1500m and 5000m, respectively

malmo wrote:

That's not true.

http://www.usatf.org/events/2008/OlympicTrials-TF/entry/qualifyingStandards.asp

Not to mention that Jorge Torres, petitioned his way into the 10,000m at USAs in 2006 (and won), without having run 10,000m on the track... ever.

I'm just saying...

Run the "A" standard, and USATF has the authority to consider your petition. Really, they make the rules, they can do whatever the f*** they want.

How much cash does it take to make up your own rules? Let me know, I will buy the rights tot he race, open it up for everyone and anyone with an elite wave start. Then the top three with the Olympic A standard to cross the line goes. Everyone will drink from the same bottled water containers as they do in the Olympics.

So how much does this cost? $1 million?

It should be all about the athlete--creating a unique experince for thos who qualified. Birmingham was all about the qualifiers A and B

rbyrne wrote:

It should be all about the athlete--creating a unique experince for thos who qualified. Birmingham was all about the qualifiers A and B

Yes, but Birmingham was under a different leadership. It was well before the Estes, Latimer, Fink, reign of terror.

How's that World Road team coming?????

Not surprised by the move. Typical NYRR.

Rich, the race should be "all about" is to provide the fairest way to select an Olympic team: head-to-head competition. Anything else is nice and makes it better but is tangential to the mission.

That said, some guys getting a bev. of choice and some guys not is not a fair playing field. Glad to see this is evening out.

By the way, I am not inside the NYRR's/USATF LDR's thinking process but I suspect that the reason Weldon is getting traction is that he offered a workable suggestion -- including staffing -- to go with his objection, rather than just a complaint.

Here's the list of eligibles:

http://www.usatf.org/events/2008/OlympicTrials-Marathon-Men/entry/eligible.asp

As of today, there are 59 'A' qualifiers and 127 total qualifiers, which means 68 'B' qualifiers.

So you're talking about adding an additional two water bottle tables, max. For an Olympic Trials that's not unreasonable at all.

Also: that 127 number doesn't include the track qualifiers, most of whom are not running. But if you think a 27:43 guy (Carney) or a 27:37 guy who does all his training in Central Park (Fam) don't have a chance to make the team, you're crazy.

2 extra tables? For 68 guys? 34 per table? Are you thinking of military mess hall tables?

Have you ever tried to

- approach a table while in a pack

- spot your bottle (this is tough even when all runners have "reserved" positions -- the same spot on the same table in the sequence table at every station, and trust me, your "unique" decorations won't be all that unique)

- position yourself to smoothly grab it without tripping yourself or others

- actually smoothly grab it

- not knock over every other bottle on the table

- amid several other guys trying to do the same thing

- all at race pace?

Look at videos of marathons. Focus on the water tables, and you will see that 8-10 per table is the approximate max capacity to avoid problems with all this.

For 68 guys you are talking about 8 tables, probably 10 is better. For just these B guys, Weldon better recruit a staff of about 10-12 guys to work just abt full time on this starting the day before the race...maybe more.

Do the math. Assume 60 B guys want bottle service -- assuming 6-8 bottles per runner (one for each 5k of the race, some will skip the 40k table) -- That's 360-480 indiv. bottles to map out (example: Table #3, Spot # 5 for Joe Beequal), distribute these maps in advance of the race to all the B guys, collect bottles on Friday, refrigerate overnite, transport onto the course, set up everything properly, and clean up off the road in real time as guys drink-and-drop so as not to have someone trip.

Also, might be hard to use both sides of a table by putting the tables in the dead center of the road. There might not be room for the press truck to pass safely.

So, call it ten tables. If the NYRR can't pull that off, especially as great as they seem to want us to all believe they are, then they never should have taken on the Trials. Past Trials have pulled it off without an organization nearly as large as the NYRR. It all sounds pretty weak to me, and my opinion of the Trials being held in NY is becoming less and less favorable. I suspect many others feel the same way.

You make a valid point. But I would think the runners spread out quite a bit over the course of the run so several more tables would be required early but fewer as the race progresses.

I agree with you. What I'm saying though is that even those Dan Browne is a "B" qualifer, I'd be shocked if the NYRR treated him like all the other B's. This includes Fam which the NYRR loves.

BTW, I'll be in NY for the race. I would defintly like to help out at one of the H2O stops Lets Run sets up. Keep me posted. My email is ny2512003@yahoo.com

Why don't NYRR just look at how Birmingham did the tables in '04? It was VERY organized and there were no issues with runners not getting their bottles, A & B's treated differently, etc. What's the difference with getting 100 tables or two tables? Just get as many as you need and organize against it. It's really pretty simple and if Birmingham did it then NYC sure should be able to do it.