There is no WC next year.
There is no WC next year.
Didn't Webb get shoved out by Korir about 100m from home? It looked like Webb immediately lost momentum...
This is true but unlike Ramzi, who also had to make a move to get around both Kiprop and Korir (nice team running by the Kenyans), Webb had no strength/energy to respond to that shove. Ramzi had plenty of jets left to both move out into lane 2 and take off after Lagat.
That said, Ramzi was the only guy in the field who had a chance to win tonight, but regardless, Lagat would have beaten him in any imaginable scenario- he was simply too strong.
MIKE EAST THE GOD wrote:
When East was in the Olympics and world champs he'd always be right up there in the mix but Webb can't hack it.
I don't know which of Michael East's you could possibly be talking about, except perhaps the Commonwealth Games.
In every global championship, he did exactly the same thing: he gave everyone a 10-metre start at the bell and finished 9 or 10 metres behind. If he had only put himself in better positions with 400 or 500 metres to go, he definitely could have medalled, but he never seemed to learn that lesson.
Andy Baddeley ran a Michael East type race today. Let's hope he learns from it.
Dave
Good effort on Alan's part. Nevertheless, being able to run arounds and being able to run one fast run (ie. his awesome mile!) are two different things. Also, that late surge he had to make in the earlier round to qualify may have taken a lot more out of him.
Great effort Alan!
wejo wrote:
I agree. After the semis he no longer was the favorite and I figured he might be a little off his game.
He was never the "favorite." Come on guys if you are this biased about running how are you on the outside.
If you can see the video of AW on the starting line, you'll know a big part of the story:
Bouncing around, trying not to jump the gun - he clearly was EXTREMELY nervous and felt a lot of pressure. This is a little surprising considering it is his 2nd WC final.
He is obviously much stronger than 2 years ago - leading the whole way and still in it with 100m to go.
Perhaps he needs to learn that sometimes the best races are where the other competitors give it to you, not those where you have to take it from them. This is what Lagat found.
Shocked wrote:
wejo wrote:I agree. After the semis he no longer was the favorite and I figured he might be a little off his game.
He was never the "favorite." Come on guys if you are this biased about running how are you on the outside.
Biased? He was the world leader in the 1500m and second in the world in the 800m this year. He had a monster kick all year, just not today. He left Baala in the last 50m of the Paris meet like he was standing still -- Baala has won a world championship silver medal and run 3:28.
No bias here.
He was the favorite according to the LetsRun poll. This wasn't the first time the LetsRun poll has been cursed.
Alan is being WAY too hard on himself. I think it's pretty clear he's had a long season and is likely past his peak condition. Coaches at the elite level should know their athletes and recognize peak conditioning is short-lived and very perishable. Recall he ran 3:51 for a mile very early in '07 and cruised at the outdoors (months ago) while Lagat looked way off form within this same period.
He's had an awesome year and should look at '07 as a great success. WC and Olympic races are all about who is the best on that day and who peaked at JUST the right time.
Alan was in the mix till the final straight and clearly just ran out of gas. I don't think tactics were really an issue (at fault) as he seems to imply. A closeup showed him grimacing on the top final turn indicating he was at/near his max speed well before the finish line.
Alan: if you read this, congratulations on the AM mile record, a sub-144, and a 3:30. You've help put American mile/1500m running back on the int'l map, along with Bernard, and should look back at '07 with a tremendous sense of accomplishment!!!
XCguy.
Like this guy and many others said, there is no need for over-analysis: Webb peaked a little early in the season, and once he didn't quite feel it in the semi's and ran poor tactically there, he probably got a little psyched out too. If he was in his peak 3:46 mile shape, he would have had no problem coming home fast enough to be right there over the last 300. He was off just a little bit, and that's all it takes to go from challenging for the win to fading to 8th. Oh well, next year might be his year.
XCguy wrote:
I think it's pretty clear he's had a long season and is likely past his peak condition. Coaches at the elite level should know their athletes and recognize peak conditioning is short-lived and very perishable. Recall he ran 3:51 for a mile very early in '07 and cruised at the outdoors (months ago).....
The only tactical error I saw him make was letting that guy through on the inside. Didn't effect things much but didn't help either.
look at the way lagat ran if you wonder how webb could have done things better. lagat tucked into 3rd or so quickly, but never letting himself get boxed. in other words, he put himself in perfect place to draft and save energy while giving himself a great place to launch for the kick at the end. webb, by contrast, led most of the way, using, as we all know, significantly more energy than those drafting behind him. after kiprop had led for 2-300m, at about 1000m, webb moved outside to pass kiprop, but he didn't pass him. that was the place to do it decisively. that doesn't mean necessarily starting the stretch drive there, but that lack of a pass led to his finally getting pushed out at 1400m by korir. at that point, webb looked like he still had a shot at it, korir literally knocked him out a lane, and then webb gave up. lagat was tapped out a little by webb in the same motion, but that was exactly when lagat went for it. webb gave up in the same action that led lagat to go all out. and that is the difference between a champion and 8th place in this. it looked to me like lagat was content to that point to led webb take it, if he could, when he couldn't, lagat took his wc gold medal for the first time. we all know that lagat looked fantastic in banging out that closing 200m for the win in the semi. and we know that webb looked bad. however, first, webb closed in 25 in the final 200 of the semi, which would have been good enough probably for the win here, and second, the webb close at new york or u.s. champs or paris would have won this, but for whatever reason, the hamstring injury, the nervousness we all saw before each of his races, an alleged cold, tiredness from leading the race, or a psychological collapse after the bump, he did not have that closing speed for this race. every time webb loses, we see people saying that it's a good learning experience, he doesn't have the race experience, etc. you can say that until his career is over. he has bad judgment in world comps and it's cost him. this was his best shot so far, and before another 3:26-7 guy emerges, and despite all else in this race, he had the race in the palm of his hand with 200m to go and couldn't close. (korir should maybe lose that medal, however, for the bump).
jonesy wrote:
look at the way lagat ran if you wonder how webb could have done things better. lagat tucked into 3rd or so quickly, but never letting himself get boxed. in other words, he put himself in perfect place to draft and save energy while giving himself a great place to launch for the kick at the end.
this is absolutely true. lagat put himself in perfect position right form the start and ran a tactically flawless race - he did this in his semi as well, and he won both races. he looks to be in complete control the entire way - he form is also super-clean, something i've never noticed in him - maybe i had never watched him closely enough. as a coach i will refer my kids to these races to demonstrate excellent racing tactics.
i will also echo what many others have said - webb has had an extraordinary season, it's just unfortunate that he couldn't stretch it out to a few more races. it was pretty clear to me that he wasn't going to win after his interview after the semis - he was a deer in headlights at that point, and clearly rattled off his game. even if he were 100% physically going into the final, he certainly was not 100% psychologically.
alan strikes me as a man of extremes - he's all the way in the back of the semi, then he's all the way up front in the final. he's super hot some seasons, like this summer, super cold other seasons. to say he's learned nothiing from osaka is pretty out there - almost seems childish, like he's pouting or something (and don't jump on me about him being disappointed, i know he is - most of us are disappointed for him).
hopefully alan will take a week or two to clear his head - go on a vacation, drink a few beers, then he and rackzo can sit down, look over the training logs and start to devise a plan for next year. i think a medal in beijing is totally doable for webb.
For us to not give webb some slack shows we are not human. I mean all of us have raced and had bad days or a period of lows after awesome highs. He is human and 24. For us to expect him to take on guys like Lagat with all his experience just shows our immaturity. He gave it his all he came up short but you have to love him for trying. Lagat's been silver in almost every major championship until this one. Great job Webb. Keep your head up you did some great things this year. Next year come back show what you've learnt and lay it all on the line.
I laugh my rear end off every time I hear someone say Webb was past his peak.
Every single time he gets his ass handed to him, you clowns start claiming he was past his peak.
THIS WAS HIS GOAL RACE. If Webb can't peak properly, and, from the posts you know it alls put here-he can't, then there is no hope for him. EVER.
an 18 year old beat him...twice
he's close to KB age !?
So? he handed Baala's ass to him on July 6 and also ran a 1:43. He was at peak a month ago. If this was his goal race he screwed up, but that can be fixed.
So Typical wrote:
I laugh my rear end off every time I hear someone say Webb was past his peak.
Every single time he gets his ass handed to him, you clowns start claiming he was past his peak.
THIS WAS HIS GOAL RACE. If Webb can't peak properly, and, from the posts you know it alls put here-he can't, then there is no hope for him. EVER.
Go away and do not return until you have reached puberty.
how do you know he was at his peak? maybe he is at his peak now but just had a bad day? the only way we MIGHT be able to tell if he peaked too early is if the GP races next month go poorly. but then again, one could also attribute that to being mentally punished after Osaka. so i guess the only way anyone can divine this is to hear it from Webb or his coach themselves. anything else is pure speculation.
I wonder where from Webb has got hair?