Josh McDougal is the man - Sick 5k/10k double 22:57 apart

dean moriarty wrote:

Why does everyone want to prove Malmo wrong? It's not like he's making crazy, outlandish statements.

It works both ways. When Ritz has gotten injured, his fitness wasn't over-burdened. Neither was Webb's when he got injured on the same U-M hill that he'd set records on.

Racing a 14:00 5K (with a huge surge at the end), a 30:22 10K and 3:49, 3:44 (down to a kick) 1500M's in spikes in 1 meet is no piece of cake on the calves/achilles. To just ignore this view and call it ignorant is ludicrous. To question that Josh's 4 spiked events in 2 days could be overracing is definitely valid to bring up.

"...concerned that I would get a bit stale kind of fast in racing.... it led me to racing to a minimum."

-Mark Nenow

"If you run for a team, your coach must help you avoid overracing... Overracing can sneak up on you... Unlike overtraining, which you can recognize..."

ttc wrote:

http://www.runningtimesmagazine.com/rt/articles/?c=392&id=5055

"If you run for a team, your coach must help you avoid overracing... Overracing can sneak up on you... Unlike overtraining, which you can recognize..."

You've quoted Gordon Bakoulis, nobody.

Here are a list of US coaches whose runners have run many races during their college careers and somehow managed not to burn them out. What do they know that ttc (nobody) and his mentor Gordon Bakoulis (nobody) don't?

Bill Bowerman

Bill Dellinger

Jumbo Elliot

John Chaplin

Ted Banks

Sam Bell

John McDonnell

Frank Gagliano

Ron Warhurst

Dan McClimon

Martin Smith

Vin Lananna

Jerry Schumacher

McDougal wore flats in the 10,000m.

ttc wrote:

http://www.trackshark.com/interviews/2006/mark_nenow.php

"...concerned that I would get a bit stale kind of fast in racing.... it led me to racing to a minimum."

-Mark Nenow

Oh no, ttc wouldn't pick and choose quotes and omit the context would he? TTC would never do that would he? Oh no, not ttc?

Here's the entire quote from Nenow.

Can you expound more on overracing and how it affects you when you are running the kind of mileage you were running?

"I don’t know if it affected me. A lot of these guesses in my head are definitely guesses. I think one of the things about being so strong with no real sharpening is that when I did race, I felt incredibly strong and also got very sharp, very fast from the racing itself. But, also, I was a little concerned that I would get a bit stale kind of fast in racing. Because my training was so uniform and so similar week in and week out, month in and month out, I think it led to a little concern on my part that I would get a little bit stale very quickly. With really no science or clear evidence about it, it led me to racing to a minimum. That was just me. I’m sure not trying to advise people to race less. That was just my sense of my self at the time."

I agree completely. Why the bias against the 5/10 double. Are the 100/200 run 20 minutes apart? Are the hurdles run 20 minutes apart? Is the 4x400 run 20 minutes after the 400? I used to coach in a league that ran the 10K last thing on Friday night and the 5K first thing on Saturday. Took us a little time but we finally got the 5K moved to late on Saturday.

hmmm, I wonder why ttc would omit the leading clause in that sentence?

Trackshark asked, Can you expound more on overracing and how it affects you when you are running the kind of mileage you were running?

Nenow said nothing about the US collegiate system, the same system that developed him without burning him out. So far, no one has named even 1 runner who was burned out by the American college system. Even if they could find one, the ratio of burnouts to nots would be like 1000 to 1.

This is a dumb thread.

You're a coach in name only.

Not a thinker are you? wrote:

Oh no, ttc wouldn't pick and choose quotes and omit the context would he?

Yea, that's why I included a link. Plus I was saying (italics below) that questioning 4 races in 2 days as overracing isn't unreasonable... and my quotes were showing that overracing is often addressed. It seems some on here thought it was thoughtless to consider overracing, and it's not. Personally I do think it was overracing, but both sides have a point.

"To just ignore this view and call it ignorant is ludicrous. To question that Josh's 4 spiked events in 2 days could be overracing is definitely valid to bring up."

Josh ran teh 5k and the 10k in flats i thought?

Not taking away the fact that he ran 4 races, 4 fast races, although i heard that he run some workouts faster then the 10k he ran....

Four races in two days is rather strange at this point in the season. Josh's best races always come in minor races, maybe this is why.

"rather strange" is an understatment. I'd say Josh's racing the last couple days was gutsy and somewhat controlled, but still moronic. A good coach would know better.

macoronee wrote:

"rather strange" is an understatment. I'd say Josh's racing the last couple days was gutsy and somewhat controlled, but still moronic. A good coach would know better.

McDougal's coach thinks exactly like John McDonnell. Who are you to say he's moronic? Go back to Runners World where you belong.

good neighbor wrote:

Four races in two days is rather strange at this point in the season. Josh's best races always come in minor races, maybe this is why.

This is only a partial list of runners who did a more impressive double/triple at their conference championships. Are their coaches stupid? Or are you?

Dan Lincoln

Alistair Cragg

Brad Hauser

David Kimani

Brent Hauser

Godfrey Siamusiye

Jason Bunston

Meb Keflezighi

Ryan Wilson

Fran Hanley

Pablo Sierra

Todd Williams

EJ Gau

Jim Sapienza

Sulieman Nyambui

Gidmas Shanaga

Peter Koech

Joseph Nzau

Steve Ortiz

Zack Barie

Bill McChesney

Chris Fox

Mike Musioki

Alberto Salazar

Joe falcon

Jim Stinzi

Sydney Maree

Henry Rono

Joel Cheruiyot

Samson Kimobwa

Rudy chapa

Craig Virgin

You're a dumb dumb. They all did double/triples huh? So they ran five races? God you're dumb.

I have to agree with the whole "McDougal ran too much" crowd. With the amount of effort he put out this weekend, he's clearly asking for burnout or worse. I think the best strategy when a championship race is approaching is to avoid all competition and, if possible, avoid all physical activity. Usually I try to set up a good 6X2hour couch marathon in order to reduce the possibility of injury as much as possible. I'm not sure Malmo knows what he's talking about when he says that this wasn't much effort on McDougal's part. The human body was not made to be upright, let alone walk or run. To actually go out and run at a mildly tough pace... that sounds like career suicide to me. I think some coaches around the nation need to get back to the basics of 40 mile weeks and lots of easy, barefoot runs on grass.

dumb dumb wrote:

You're a dumb dumb. They all did double/triples huh? So they ran five races? God you're dumb.

McDougal only had one race and 3 workouts. 30:23 sheeeeeeeesh! You guys are so lame. Go back to Dyestat!

Oh, THAT'S funny, and I KNOW FUNNY! But what if the batteries run down on the remote control, what next?

Josh McDougal didn't even have the best triple of the weekend, stop looking at the lame-ass IC4A results and check out the SEC results.

Barnabas Kirui So Ole Miss 8:33.59, 14:06.94, 30:07.05

Peter Kosgei Jr Arkansas 8:48.40, 14:10.98, 30:12.98