Josh McDougal is the man - Sick 5k/10k double 22:57 apart

So did the discussion drop when McDougal won the 1500 too?

There was so much talk about 2.5 parts of his triple, but he was able to complete it with a solid 3:44.xx.

Or maybe everyone finally realized that it was a kindergarten meet.

Commen Cense wrote:

So did the discussion drop when McDougal won the 1500 too?

There was so much talk about 2.5 parts of his triple, but he was able to complete it with a solid 3:44.xx.

What triple? I only see a tempo run scheduled a little to close to a 1500. Not the best scheduling, but when you're competing against chumps it's not an issue.

Cornell teammate wrote: Starting to get it now, "Reality sets in"? Can you change "dummy" to "smart plan"?

I thought you had to be smart to get into Cornell? Can you say "dummy?"

Men 1500 Meter Run FINALS

=======================================================================================

Meet Record: M 3:37.41 1979 Sidney Maree, Villanova

3:47.80 NCAA

Name Year School Finals Points

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Finals

1 598 McDougal, Jo 08 Liberty 3:44.56 NCAA 10

2 1294 Konoval, Tim 07 Pittsburgh 3:45.00 NCAA 8

3 1311 Foerster, Ja 07 Virginia 3:46.93 NCAA 6

4 492 Ng'etich, Ab 08 Iona 3:47.07 NCAA 5

5 1179 Feldman, Max 07 Connecticut 3:48.90 4

6 271 Johnston, Ga 07 Columbia 3:50.22 3

7 342 Wyner, Jim 08 Cornell 3:51.28 2

8 1325 Tscheirhart, 10 Virginia 3:51.58 1

9 378 Spooner, Chr 08 Duke 4:02.14

10 1058 Miller, Brad 10 Syracuse 4:10.60

11 1314 Jesien, Andr 09 Virginia 4:11.65

Men 1500 Meter Run Prelims

================================================================================

Meet Record: M 3:37.41 1979 Sidney Maree, Villanova

3:47.80 NCAA

Name Year School Prelims

================================================================================

Preliminaries

1 342 Wyner, Jim 08 Cornell 3:42.80QNCAA

2 1325 Tscheirhart, Kevin 10 Virginia 3:49.02Q

3 598 McDougal, Josh 08 Liberty 3:49.58Q

4 492 Ng'etich, Abraham 08 Iona 3:46.85QNCAA

5 1311 Foerster, Jan 07 Virginia 3:49.16Q

6 1179 Feldman, Max 07 Connecticut 3:49.72Q

7 1058 Miller, Brad 10 Syracuse 3:47.60QNCAA

8 1294 Konoval, Tim 07 Pittsburgh 3:49.45Q

9 271 Johnston, Gabriel 07 Columbia 3:49.95Q

10 378 Spooner, Chris 08 Duke 3:47.93q

11 218 Hanlon, Michael 07 Colgate 3:48.42q

12 1314 Jesien, Andrew 09 Virginia 3:49.76q

13 957 Cebula, Mike 07 So Conn St 3:50.61

14 486 Hortian, Adam 07 Iona 3:51.24

15 1437 Gallagher, Jake 09 Yale 3:51.78

16 1407 Brett, Allan 10 Villanova 3:52.24

17 310 Hatch, Charlie 10 Cornell 3:52.58

The main purpose of that meet for Wyner was to get a fast time in the prelim to be as high as possible on the national descending order list even if it cost him in the final.

Mission accomplished.

What some armchair quarterback thinks he should have done doesn't matter. You don't call the shots.

Cornell teammate wrote:

The main purpose of that meet for Wyner was to get a fast time in the prelim to be as high as possible on the national descending order list even if it cost him in the final.

What's the "main purpose" of going to nationals when it's clear he doesn't belong at nationals in the first place?

Who the hell is coaching this idiot?

Armchair quarterback wrote:

Cornell teammate wrote:

The main purpose of that meet for Wyner was to get a fast time in the prelim to be as high as possible on the national descending order list even if it cost him in the final.

What's the "main purpose" of going to nationals when it's clear he doesn't belong at nationals in the first place?

Who the hell is coaching this idiot?

"What's the 'main purpose' of going to nationals?"

Going to nationals is the purpose of going to nationals.

You're the only idiot in this situation.

Dan Onymous wrote:

You're the only idiot in this situation.

You might be right, but that's besides the point.

Cornell teammates reasoning is bad even by Letsrun standards. It ranks up there right alongside of SFH's "I'm saving myself for Zurich."

Call me stupid, call me an idiot if you want, but don't call me late for Zurich.

Armchair quarterback wrote:

What's the "main purpose" of going to nationals when it's clear he doesn't belong at nationals in the first place?

If he ends up making it, he belongs. I suppose you wouldn't even try to make it if you were anywhere close, but hey, if you don't give a sh!t enough to aim for anything in life, have fun with that! At least you've got criticizing going for you, and I'll bet that's the only thing.

Who the hell is coaching this idiot?

It sure as hell ain't you, thank goodness. Telling a guy who's on the cusp of nationals that he doesn't belong isn't exactly something any coach should do. Ditto for not encouraging him to go for a fast time when he's fresh and it's his last chance.

Armchair quarterback wrote:

Cornell teammates reasoning is bad even by Letsrun standards. It ranks up there right alongside of SFH's "I'm saving myself for Zurich."

Wyner didn't save himself. He ran a 3:42 to try to move up the list and he didn't have it in the final. Oh well. The IC4A final wasn't as important as getting the time in the prelims.

You aren't grasping the fact that he went there to get the damn time in the prelims. If you think it's a bad decision, so be it. He thinks it was a good one. And it's his choice, not yours.

Cornell teammate wrote:

It sure as hell ain't you, thank goodness. Telling a guy who's on the cusp of nationals that he doesn't belong isn't exactly something any coach should do. Ditto for not encouraging him to go for a fast time when he's fresh and it's his last chance.

Wyner never develop by becoming a tourist at nationals because he'll be in way over his head. He had a perfect opportunity to hone his racing skills against athletes of the same level, but chose to run like a fool in the prelims and making a fool of himself in the finals. Racing at your own level is where all development takes place. He failed miserably. By his reckless prelims running and dismal show in the finals at IC4A Wyner already proven it that he doesn't belong in the Big Show.

Call me all the names you want, it was a foolish display of racing prowess by Wyner, you can't take that away.

Wyner gave himself a shot to be at Nationals. Who's to say he runs a 3:48 to qualify and still runs 3:49- 3:50 in the final. Then he is going nowhere. Good for Wyner- I hope he makes it. And if runs well at NCAA that is icing on the cake. Good tactics is my vote. Armchair has blinders on.

Given the choice I would choose to participate at NCAA over a top showing at what some have called a Mickey Mouse conference meet.

Good Luck to Wyner!

well, if he can't come back the day after a 3:42 or a similar effort and run an even better race in the final, he won't be a player at nationals. that much is true. but he has a much better chance of being at the nationals by virtue of running the 3:42 instead of going to the regional with a 3:44 or whatever he had. see how many guys there are at 3:44 this year? he's still going to have to make the final at regionals. if he can't do that, then he doesn't belong at the show this year, fair enough. but he's got a better chance than if he had to make the top 5.

i bet he's run against people at the same level often enough. sea ray, conference, ic4as last year, blah, blah, blah. and yeah, he still has to get better at racing people. but if he came to this race to run a faster time, he did what he wanted.

if this was true, no one would ever reach a new level, or if they got in better shape, they'd never venture beyond their little circle jerk. why travel to stanford or mt. sac for a 10k when you can keep trying to prove yourself as a good racing tactician in 30:30 races? why even look for opportunities to get the 3:47.80 regional time in the 1500 when you're at 3:49? just keep "honing those racing skills" in 3:49-3:53 races and never go to regionals. finish your college career without ever competing outside your comfort zone. why go to a high school meet where you might run a 4:10 and get in the fast section at outdoor nationals when you can beat all the 4:25 guys at the buckwheat relays with your 4:20 for the second straight year? in fact, why not just keep racing middle school guys once you get to high school and college?

here's a spot of news for you. development is just as much about getting faster as it is about racing people you're already as fast as.

besides, i thought this thread was about mcdougal.

Pac 10 observer wrote:

you stupid trolls are playing into the hands of someone named "armchair quarterback"

i think so too. but armchair quarterback has to be the real troll. nobody would really think it's dumb for an athlete to go for a fast time in a non conference setting so as to have a better chance for an at large to nationals.

well gee, guys wrote:

i think so too. but armchair quarterback has to be the real troll. nobody would really think it's dumb for an athlete to go for a fast time in a non conference setting so as to have a better chance for an at large to nationals.

I think its really dumb and foolish to do what he did. Embarrassing to the sport, as well. Anyone who cannot be competitive in a regional meet doesn't belong at nationals at all. Yes, it would have been better to lose to McDougal in the IC4As finals in 3:44 than the ridiculous Mickey Mouse display he put on.

By running the way he did, he confirmed that he is not ready for the big stage.

If I was he coach, he'd have been taken out the the woodshed and received a serious lecture and told to never pull a stunt like that again.

i honestly wonder if anyone really, honestly thinks it's stupid that this guy went for a PR in the prelims... dude's last chance to make nationals - he did what he had to do. i hate to jump on the bandwagon here, but anyone who resents what he did is just jealous of his talent as they have never come close to 3:42. Anyone reading this who has run that quickly knows the tremendous dedication, determination, and talent it takes to do so. all the haters, bag it for another thread - this one is about mcdougal anyway.

Hells Smells wrote:

Commen Cense wrote:

So did the discussion drop when McDougal won the 1500 too?

There was so much talk about 2.5 parts of his triple, but he was able to complete it with a solid 3:44.xx.

What triple? I only see a tempo run scheduled a little to close to a 1500. Not the best scheduling, but when you're competing against chumps it's not an issue.

????

He still ran 3 races. Triple refers to 3 of something.

I didn't say anything about his effort or how tiring the effort was, just the fact that he completed the triple, meaning won all 3 of those running events (since you'll apparently jump if I call it 'a race').

come on! wrote:

i honestly wonder if anyone really, honestly thinks it's stupid that this guy went for a PR in the prelims... dude's last chance to make nationals - he did what he had to do. i hate to jump on the bandwagon here, but anyone who resents what he did is just jealous of his talent as they have never come close to 3:42. Anyone reading this who has run that quickly knows the tremendous dedication, determination, and talent it takes to do so. all the haters, bag it for another thread - this one is about mcdougal anyway.

You're wrong. His last chance to qualify was Sunday, or at Regionals.

I'm neither jealous(sic) of him, nor a "hater," and have run faster than 3:42. One thing for sure, I've never run like a fool in any prelim in my life. This was a bush league display. If this is what the guy is about, then I hope he makes it to nationals buys a lot of souvenir t-shirts.

well gee, guys wrote:finish your college career without ever competing outside your comfort zone. why go to a high school meet where you might run a 4:10 and get in the fast section at outdoor nationals when you can beat all the 4:25 guys at the buckwheat relays with your 4:20 for the second straight year?

The main problem with your logic is that Wyner never showed he could compete in the buckwheat relays.