Ian Thorpe 'tested positive'

We must sadly presume that ALL top-tier competitors in all sports are on SOMETHING.

C'es la vie.

NOW, someone suggested here that ALL substances be made legal: If you die, or grow a 3rd eyeball, so be it; just asterisk any WR's or notate that any Olympic or World Championship medals or records set since, say 1968, are now suspect.

I would concur with that. What do you all think?

I believe in the purity of athletic competition but realize it is not a reality. The only person I am 100% certain never took PED is me, at least I can look my kids in the eyes and explain my views. We have to keep trying to bust the drug cheats, to just give up is not acceptable.

....and another one bites the dust.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/03/30/sports/EU-SPT-SWM-Thorpe-Doping-Report.php

imagine.

Big Surprise...NOT! wrote:

NOW, someone suggested here that ALL substances be made legal: If you die, or grow a 3rd eyeball, so be it; just asterisk any WR's or notate that any Olympic or World Championship medals or records set since, say 1968, are now suspect.

I would concur with that. What do you all think?

One potentially serious problem with this is athletes being given drugs without their consent or full knowledge. Think GDR and Soviet Bloc countries in the past (Hormone Heidi anyone?) and China now. Yeah, the drug will kill the athlete in a few years or make it impossible for them to have kids, but that's their problem - we want a gold medal.

OTOH, the fact that some drugs/techniques are legal and others aren't is a little arbitrary. Why is the injection of your own red blood cells illegal? Why are B12 injections legal? It's all a little arbitrary.

What can I say:

THE PUSHER

From the 1968 release "Steppenwolf"

Words and music by Hoyt Axton

You know I've smoked a lot of grass

O' Lord, I've popped a lot of pills

But I never touched nothin'

That my spirit could kill

You know, I've seen a lot of people walkin' 'round

With tombstones in their eyes

But the pusher don't care

Ah, if you live or if you die

God damn, The Pusher

God damn, I say The Pusher

I said God damn, God damn The Pusher man

You know the dealer, the dealer is a man

With the love grass in his hand

Oh but the pusher is a monster

Good God, he's not a natural man

The dealer for a nickel

Lord, will sell you lots of sweet dreams

Ah, but the pusher ruin your body

Lord, he'll leave your, he'll leave your mind to scream

God damn, The Pusher

God damn, God damn the Pusher

I said God damn, God, God damn The Pusher man

Well, now if I were the president of this land

You know, I'd declare total war on The Pusher man

I'd cut him if he stands, and I'd shoot him if he'd run

Yes I'd kill him with my Bible and my razor and my gun

Cynical? Butthey it's all the same.

Just had to copy/paste this catchy tune now on the 100.3 CKKQ FM

Peace.

God damn The Pusher

Gad damn The Pusher

I said God damn, God damn The Pusher man

He's connected to our felow friend down the south............ int's that a bitch......lOL

Coach D wrote:

....and another one bites the dust.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/03/30/sports/EU-SPT-SWM-Thorpe-Doping-Report.php

Floyd Landis, Gareth Turnbull, tennis player Guillermo Canas (whp just beat Federer), cyclist Ingo Landaluze, Lance Armstrong, Bernard Lagat and now Thorpe - all innocent athletes that had some idiot chemist screw up their test, or have an ADA official leak inaccurate information about their test, only to see their careers sullied for no good reason.

Your're right Chuck D, too many innocent athletes biting the dust.

Big Surprise...NOT! wrote:

We must sadly presume that ALL top-tier competitors in all sports are on SOMETHING.

C'es la vie.

Depends on the sport. Europeans and others are monitored heavily in distance running while third world athletes, especially Africans, are let get away with things due to politics. If Thorpe were a Dominican or some such, they'd have covered up for him. It's a huge political game, whether the naive or scared want to deny it.

Need to get the facts straight here. He has NOT tested positive. He had abnormal testosterone reading, which is along way from positive. An actual positive is when you\'re over the TE ratio, which he was NOT. It was higher than usual and thus considered abnormal. Drug agancies get a shitload of those a week and toss them as there is usually an explanation. One example, a female athlete tested had a similar abnormal, not positive, reading due to ingredients found in the contraceptive pill. So Once over the threshold though then the explanation doesn\'t matter......you\'re out for 2 years. Thorpe was not over that threahold. At the time of the test, he had just come off glandualar fever (mono) and was on medication for a broken hand. So let us not jump to unnecessary conclusions.

An abnormal T-E ratio does not in itself constitute a doping offence, but rather is an indicator that a doping offence might have occurred and further investigation is required.

T-E ratios above the allowable 4 to 1 threshold are not uncommon and can occur physiologically, due to the athlete's natural hormone production.

In fact, the ratio was formerly set at 6 to 1 and probably should have remained at that level. Physiological ratios of greater than 6 to 1 are much more unusual, although they have been recorded.

Once an abnormal T-E ratio is found, further investigations are required. The first line of testing is an IRMS (isotope ratio mass spectrometry) test. This test can distinguish between naturally occurring (endogenous) testosterone, and artificial (exogenous) testosterone.

This test is expensive but almost 100 per cent reliable in detecting use of testosterone supplementation.

The combination of an elevated T-E ratio and a positive IRMS test constitutes a doping offence and no further testing is required. This was apparently the situation in both the Gatlin and Landis cases.

I am assuming that as Thorpe has not already been charged with a doping offence, that his IRMS test was negative.

If the IRMS test is negative for exogenous testosterone, this does not necessarily rule out a doping offence and the authorities would then review previous T-E ratios and determine whether the abnormal result is possibly caused by physiological fluctuation, or whether it is so clearly different from previous levels that a doping offence is the most likely explanation.

Recent Australian experience at the Commonwealth Games and elsewhere has shown that T-E ratios between 4 to 1 and 6 to 1 are quite common. On further investigation, none of these ratios has been found to be associated with exogenous intake of testosterone and therefore none has resulted in a doping offence.

Several countries and sporting organisations have requested the World Anti-Doping Agency return the abnormal ratio level to 6 to 1.

Sounds more and more like Landis everyday

http://goodversicherung.blogspot.com/2007/04/sport.html

In other swimming news, Ian Thorpe has denied all allegations of doping after a sample that he gave before he retired last year was found to contain high levels of testosterone (a similar situation and possibly the same sort of test, it seems, as the Floyd Landis debacle at last year’s Tour de France). From the reports and the news conferences, Mr. Thorpe is very angry about the leaking of the test results to the press before the inquiries were finish. Understandable I think, because Ian Thorpe has always been an advocate for clean racing, and it is truly unimaginable that Mr. Thorpe would have cheated.

Sarcasm is not going to trump true science. WADA/USADA/ASADA...ADA is not going to be able to continue to hide behind closed, magical, mystical, hidden testing procedures. Their tests should be open to anyone to verify the accuracy of them -not some "trust me" testimonial from some hack.

Thorpe has NOT tested positive!!!

mopak wrote:

Thorpe has NOT tested positive!!!

That is correct, but most people can't resist a sensational headline, and assume it must be true.

PI to investigate Thorpe test leak

Nicole Jeffery

April 03, 2007

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21493693-2702,00.html

FINA, the international swimming federation, will hire a private investigator to discover who breached Ian Thorpe's confidentiality by leaking the results of a drug test that he fears will tarnish his record as Australia's greatest Olympian.

Swimming Australia executive director Glenn Tasker said yesterday FINA executive director Cornel Marculescu had pledged to employ a professional investigator for the case as soon as he returned to Switzerland.

Mr Tasker said the main issue for Thorpe, who retired four months ago, was to be able to prove the fluctuation in his testosterone levels had occurred naturally. But he said the secondary issue was the breach of confidentiality that undermined the integrity of the entire anti-doping system.

"The first issue is extremely important to Ian, but the side-issue is extremely important to everyone else - athletes like Libby Lenton and Grant Hackett and Aaron Peirsol and Natalie Coughlin - because they have to have faith in the system," Mr Tasker said.

However, Mr Tasker does not believe FINA is the source of the leak. The French journalist who disclosed details of Thorpe's test had previously received confidential information about the drug tests of US cyclists Lance Armstrong and Floyd Landis.

Australian head coach Alan Thompson has called on the FINA Athletes Commission, which is headed by former sprint champion Alex Popov, to take upthe issue on behalf of the world's swimmers.

The Australian Swimmers Association, which represents elite swimmers, is also concerned about the breach and supports Swimming Australia's stand.

Thorpe is believed to have spent yesterday meeting his lawyer, Tony O'Reilly, and his doctors to begin preparing a submission to the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority to explain why his testosterone levels might have varied in the test in May last year.

FINA had asked the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Switzerland to review the case to determine if Thorpe had a case to answer. Under the international anti-doping code rules, any test that registers a testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio of more than 4:1 must be investigated further.

These levels can occur naturally due to a range of pathological and physiological reasons. Thorpe's T/E ratio on the relevant test was said to be between 4:1 and 6:1.

An eminent sports physician, who asked not to be named, said it was not uncommon for athletes to register ratios above 4:1.

"It's quite possible to have quite significant changes in the test levels - there are a lot of things that can make that fluctuate radically, including the time of day," he said. "I have had athletes who have been in that range and been tested, and I know they are not on steroids, and they have been cleared. There are people who have had over 6:1 and been cleared.

"I don't think there's been enough research done on these levels. It's almost pick a figure out of the air and make that the acceptable level."

The doctor pointed out that the ratio could indicate that the athlete's epitestosterone level was low, rather than the testosterone high, and said the absolute levels of both hormones would have to be examined.

Australian team captain Grant Hackett jumped to Thorpe's defence yesterday, saying: "I knew any allegations or speculation about this incident were untrue and unfair. I just feel sorry for the guy."