I think the altitude would affect you at least a little bit when you get to mile 7 and have to run up over 125 feet in less than a mile.
I think the altitude would affect you at least a little bit when you get to mile 7 and have to run up over 125 feet in less than a mile.
1. St. George doesn't fill up so fast because people like being driven out into the desert in the dark.
2. I know a few people who have huge PRs on the course.
3. Whatever the physical reality, and my opinion and opinion only is that it's worth 5-8 minutes, possibly more, the perception among lots and lots of runners is that it is fast, i.e, faster than one could run on a flat course. Does it have to be run "correctly"? Sure, but what marathon doesn't?
4. Lastly, everyone who I who has run well on the course, admittedly a small sampling, is defensive, pointing out the hill, or altitude, or quads. My response is simply, "Whatever motivated you to waste all that training on a slow hard course?" They ususally get the point.
I've run St. George and brutally difficult courses like the old St. Louis Olympiad course. St. George is worth four to five minutes but not much more than that. You have to run smart on that course in order to run fast. I negative split it the first two times I ran it so the downhills are an advantage but you pay a tremendous price. The third time I ran it I wasn't quite in the condition I had been in when I had run it six years earlier and tried the same strategy and completely bombed. The downhills tore me apart.
this could help the thread:
Steamtown is a piece of cake. The only ridiculously steep downhill is right at the very beginning from about 600 to 1000 meters. The rest are very easy to run relaxed and you get to bank a lot of time and energy for the final 3 decent sized uphills starting at 23 miles.
Among the respondents, what kind of specific preparation did you do for downhill running?
The three trial qualifier that I know of all qualified at St. George. All three were right around 2:30 at their respective trials.
Seems like a good statistic.
From what is writen about the course, many said they used a para-glider to prepare for the downhill. Saty away from this illegal for OT-Q course!
I've run St George twice, and I've done 15 marathons total, so a decent sample size. St Geo is a "PR" by over 4 minutes compared to anything else I've done (note that I put "PR" in quotes). In addition, for quite a while, the second half of the StG course was faster than any half marathon I've ever run. The course is blazing. Most people I know who have run it, have run about 4-5 minutes faster than what they've done elsewhere. Based on my own experiences, and then looking at my peers as well, I think 4-5 minutes is a safe estimate.
In regards to downhill and altitude, I don't think the altitude hurts you as much when you're running downhill. Again, this is just observational; I'd love to see a study or some physiology confirming this.
I love the StG Marathon. It's a fun race, really well organized, beautiful course, perfect weather, and pretty good competition. However, I don't consider it my PR, or at least I put it in a different category from my unaided PR. Similar to if a sprinter runs a PR or a "record" with a tailwind (or long jumper, etc). It might have been a great race and a great effort, but the time won't stand on it's own, because it's aided.
Just wanted to add some data to this old thread.My friend ran a 2:22 at St. George a few years ago and 2:30/2:31 at Chicago and Boston. It looks to be about 5-10 minutes fast.To be fair, St. George was his first marathon and some people say that your first marathon actually may be your fastest in certain instances.
This was a clear, concise and reasonable post. You do realize this is LR right? You need to add some insults, conjecture and bragging (lying), then it will fit right in here. But I applaud your innocence.
I can only speak for myself, but I think I was exactly the sort of runner those who worry about it being a trials qualifier worry about. My PR was 2:27; my big goal had always been to qualify for the trials. I ran a 1:09 half, so I should have been able to run faster than 2:27, maybe 2:25. Anyway, I ran St. George twice, trying to hold 5:20 pace. I couldn't do it. In fact, I didn't come close to my PR at St. George. The pounding of the downhill was too damaging. 5:20 pace still felt too fast. Both times, I was on pace through 15 miles or so before falling off -drastically. Also, it didn't afford nearly the advantage I'd hoped for. However, I'm a big guy (1.82, 66kg - at the time...) so maybe that makes a difference.
There was a race out in OR, maybe there is still, called Mt. Trask, or something like that. The race was basically up a mountain and down it. It was steep. Coming down was faster than going up, but, for me, not a lot faster. Not as much faster as you might expect. It was too steep. Way too steep.
Obviously, at some point, a downhill course enables one to run faster. I mean, if you jumped out of a plane 26.2 miles above the Earth, you'd probably record a PR.
it is not a usatf trials qualifying race
Yawn.... Read the links provided in this thread ... Yawn.
I mean, if you jumped out of a plane 26.2 miles above the Earth, you'd probably record a PR.
^LOL
FWIT, I ran 2:45 at Steamtown and 2:42 in NYC.
one of the issues with running fast at st. george is that it can get pretty warm there too.
The crosses of St George are flying all around me.
It's coming home,
It's coming home,
It's coming,
Football's coming home...
Everyone seems to know the score,
They've seen it all before,
They just know,
They're so sure,
That England's Gonna throw it away,
Gonna blow it away,
But know they can play,
'Cause I remember...
Three Lions on a shirt,
Jules Rimet still gleaming,
Thirty years of hurt,
Never stopped me dreaming.
So many jokes, so many sneers,
But all those oh-so-nears,
Wear you down,
Through the years,
But I still see that tackle by Moore,
And when Linekar scored,
Bobby belting the ball,
And Nobby Dancing...
Three Lions on a shirt,
Jules Rimet still gleaming,
Thirty years of hurt,
Never stopped me dreaming.
It's coming...
Three Lions...
I know it was then, but i could be again
It's coming...
Three Lions...
Thanks for posting this. When I ran St. George, the downhills blew up my quads and I ran ten minutes slower than my worst case scenario time on a flat course. I didn't notice the elevation, but I was living at elevation at the time.
you're an idiot wrote:
If you think the course is short, go video-tape yourself measuring it with a running wheel. I can vouch that it's a full 26.21 miles.
Probably longer, if it uses the USATF course measuring protocol of .1% SCPF.